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Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

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Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#61

Post by [deleted] »

humanrebar wrote: post #54
nicktelford wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't at all accurate. There was no treatment for his condition beyond palliative care. He was on life support for the rest of his life, no matter what anyone did. His doctors, whose duty is to the patient, determined that it was more harmful to artificially keep him "alive" (he was in a semi-vegetative state due to serious brain damage) than to disconnect his life support and allow him to die. The offer of "car…

> The court case was between his doctors and his parents. The UK government had absolutely nothing to do with it. Is there a difference in terminology here? The courts are part of the government in my mind. And they have the ability to overrule unjust law.

[deleted]

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#62

Post by nicktelford »

humanrebar wrote: post #54
nicktelford wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't at all accurate. There was no treatment for his condition beyond palliative care. He was on life support for the rest of his life, no matter what anyone did. His doctors, whose duty is to the patient, determined that it was more harmful to artificially keep him "alive" (he was in a semi-vegetative state due to serious brain damage) than to disconnect his life support and allow him to die. The offer of "car…

> The court case was between his doctors and his parents. The UK government had absolutely nothing to do with it. Is there a difference in terminology here? The courts are part of the government in my mind. And they have the ability to overrule unjust law.

An independent judiciary is a foundation of all true democracies. The government may make the laws, but the judiciary are fully independent when making judgements about a case.

IANAL but I believe in this case, the point of law it came down to was largely about deciding what was best for the patient, not the parents.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#63

Post by Quarrelsome »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #9

How can people read and hear about stories like this, and even possibly think it's OK or even normal? How do lawmakers in the USA convince people that this is acceptable? I have never directly paid a single cent for healthcare, and neither has anyone I know. When I had to get 6 stitches in my forehead at 2 AM on a Sunday morning, it cost me nothing. When my friend needed to get the tip of his finger reattached, it co…

I don't understand the logic of "it will cost too much to save my ear so I'll get plastic surgery instead". That's fucking mad.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#64

Post by mfoy_ »

mikeash wrote: post #58
toomanybeersies wrote: post #9

How can people read and hear about stories like this, and even possibly think it's OK or even normal? How do lawmakers in the USA convince people that this is acceptable? I have never directly paid a single cent for healthcare, and neither has anyone I know. When I had to get 6 stitches in my forehead at 2 AM on a Sunday morning, it cost me nothing. When my friend needed to get the tip of his finger reattached, it co…

Nobody thinks this is good, but half of our voters think government is the problem, and these problems would disappear if the government would stop messing everything up and let businesses provide health care how they want.

I'm pretty sure "how they want" looks exactly like it does right now, with the only change being the option to refuse treating uninsured emergency cases.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#65

Post by OnMyPhone »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #9

How can people read and hear about stories like this, and even possibly think it's OK or even normal? How do lawmakers in the USA convince people that this is acceptable? I have never directly paid a single cent for healthcare, and neither has anyone I know. When I had to get 6 stitches in my forehead at 2 AM on a Sunday morning, it cost me nothing. When my friend needed to get the tip of his finger reattached, it co…

I hate it all, and would rather pay much more taxes if we had universal healthcare.

That aside, I had a few different people give me the following reason why this is acceptable to them. "Why should we pay any of our hard earned money to the government so some drug addict can get their fix?" "Why should I pay for single mothers who made bad decisions?" It is almost always other people making poor decisions or getting into poor situations that justify their choices on this type of stuff.

When you ask about parents who's kids can't get surgery, they reply in a similar fashion, "there's government programs for them, so I don't need to pay anymore taxes." They have never had to use one of these "wonderful" government programs. That's key to their thinking.

Try to tell them that it could be their kids that need a surgery they can't afford and it'll go something like, "well that's why we pay for insurance out of our pocket." They never stop to think about people who are in a bad situation.

There is NO getting through to some of these people until they need the help they refuse to pay for. I have seen one couple change their minds once their insurance refused to cover something for their kid. Immediately they were "raising awareness" for this type of stuff... but whatever at least they eventually came to.

So to answer your question, they aren't blind per se, as they see how stupid it is. They are however selfish as shit and don't care about anyone outside of their initial friends and family.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#66

Post by 21 »

Talyen42 wrote: post #39

Hospital corporations and insurance corporations are not your friend. You shouldn't have to do this in a first world country, but: * Go to the ER without ID * (optional) Ask how much it will cost * (optional) They do not give prices, as a matter of policy * They must treat you by law * Afterwards, offer a cash payment you deem reasonable * They will accept or decline it Transaction complete. For non-emergency care an…

Does this actually work? Won't they detain you and call the police like a shop or restaurant would if you don't pay the bill?

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#67

Post by swarnie_ »

saalweachter wrote: post #59
Talyen42 wrote: post #39

Hospital corporations and insurance corporations are not your friend. You shouldn't have to do this in a first world country, but: * Go to the ER without ID * (optional) Ask how much it will cost * (optional) They do not give prices, as a matter of policy * They must treat you by law * Afterwards, offer a cash payment you deem reasonable * They will accept or decline it Transaction complete. For non-emergency care an…

Important note on ER care. The job of the ER is to prevent you from dying, not fix you. If you are injured in a way that requires an expensive surgery and therapy to fix but won't actually kill you if left untreated, even if it cripples you, they are not obligated to fix you under the law.

How did your healthcare system get messed up to such a level? This is criminal in western Europe.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#68

Post by titzer »

travoc wrote: post #53
titzer wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good point, but not the only reason. The insurance industry extracts a big profit margin by just moving money from one risk pool to another, and that profit has to come from somewhere, so, costs go up. It's inevitable.

U.S. health insurers have an average profit rate of 3.1%. Does that sound massive to you?

That's their profit. We are all paying for their operating costs as well.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#69

Post by beguiledfoil »

mfoy_ wrote: post #64
mikeash wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody thinks this is good, but half of our voters think government is the problem, and these problems would disappear if the government would stop messing everything up and let businesses provide health care how they want.

I'm pretty sure "how they want" looks exactly like it does right now, with the only change being the option to refuse treating uninsured emergency cases.

They also don't want to be "forced" to buy insurance.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#70

Post by analog31 »

Carlton87 wrote: post #2

There is an easy way to avoid this, don't go to the Emergency Room unless you have an Emergency.

In my view "emergency room" is a red herring. I once went to an ER for something. My first interaction was at a window where a worker asked me what was up, then pointed me down the hall to a facility that looked like and was just a regular urgent care clinic.

Medical care is anything if not statistical. If an ER is receiving non-emergency patients, they know it, and can design their care processes to handle those patients efficiently.

If they're billing patients $5k for a bandage, it's solely a financial boondoggle. There is also a political aspect -- blaming poor people for "wasting" care by making unnecessary use of the ER.

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