H-1B abuse: Bay Area tech workers from India paid a pittance, feds say • Hacker News Board

Re: H-1B abuse: Bay Area tech workers from India paid a pittance, feds say

#61

Post by diebeforei485 » Wed, May 02, 2018, 6:01 AM UTC

youzicha wrote: post #37

tiff_seattle wrote: post #14

Why not just adjust the H-1B program so that the highest paid positions get priority? That way companies could still hire abroad for in-demand skills, but it would eliminate bringing people into the country to avoid paying the prevailing wages for IT workers. You could even make exceptions for academic or medical work as needed. It seems like a common sense adjustment to the program, but I don't see many people offer…

Exactly this was proposed last year in a bill with a democrat sponsor. But right now H1b is basically the only way to get hired as an immigrant. If you made it wage-prioritized there would be basically no way to get an h1b for entry level jobs, which would really suck for new graduates. http://alexyar.tumblr.com/post/156649015342/anyway-heres-the...

This is not true. If you make it wage-prioritized, it will help real employers (VC funded startups as well as big companies), and make life difficult for body-shop employers like the one mentioned in this article. The body-shops are consistently the lowest-paying employers.

Re: H-1B abuse: Bay Area tech workers from India paid a pittance, feds say

#62

Post by always_good » Wed, May 02, 2018, 6:01 AM UTC

manjunaths wrote: post #40

49bc wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I was living in India I’d probably take that deal.

I know that it is a common belief that India is 3rd world country and people would jump at any chance to get out. Not all of India is like that and not all of us are wage slaves doing menial jobs in IT. Some of us have a better quality of life, friends, family, culture and social life. Not to mention the amazing home food.

Some people suggest the same when they hear I moved to Mexico.

"Wait, everyone wants to get out of Mexico though. Why would you go there? My gardener cut off his testicle to come."

These are the sort of people who most desperately need to leave the tit to meet other people in other cultures but in my experience they are the least likely to.

On the other hand, the people leaving Mexico to be taken advantage of in the States are the most desperate. Just like these Indians. So if those are the only people you hear about from Mexico or India, you don't get an accurate picture.

Re: H-1B abuse: Bay Area tech workers from India paid a pittance, feds say

#63

Post by tiff_seattle » Wed, May 02, 2018, 6:02 AM UTC

dingo_bat wrote: post #57

tiff_seattle wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

H-1B shouldn't be used for entry level positions though. It should be used for positions that cannot be filled by the local workforce.

So no jobs for newly graduated students who are not citizens?

If they don't have a skill that employers are willing to pay top dollar for, then no. H-1B is designed for bringing highly skilled workers into the country. It's not a program for job security for new grads.

Re: H-1B abuse: Bay Area tech workers from India paid a pittance, feds say

#64

Post by diebeforei485 » Wed, May 02, 2018, 6:03 AM UTC

smnrchrds wrote: post #41

jarsj wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be great, but companies would figure out ways around it. Company would pay 2X and ask employee to pay X to some random/affiliated company for training etc. They would even do this handoff in India to stay out of radar and tell you what many indians would take the deal. The solution is "EXTREMELY" strict penalties including prison time for board of companies who indulge in it willingly.

I doubt that would be even remotely legal. If it were, you would have seen tons of minimum wage jobs paying below minimum wage through these schemes.

It's easy to exploit immigrants though. Cultural differences (less likely to speak out), as well as lack of knowledge and experience of local laws, make the likelihood of legal action very low indeed.

Re: H-1B abuse: Bay Area tech workers from India paid a pittance, feds say

#65

Post by curun1r » Wed, May 02, 2018, 6:04 AM UTC

tiff_seattle wrote: post #14

Why not just adjust the H-1B program so that the highest paid positions get priority? That way companies could still hire abroad for in-demand skills, but it would eliminate bringing people into the country to avoid paying the prevailing wages for IT workers. You could even make exceptions for academic or medical work as needed. It seems like a common sense adjustment to the program, but I don't see many people offer…

That would result in tech workers continuing to be underpaid, just slightly less so, and other professions being complete non-starters for immigrants. Working in tech, it's easy to get myopic about H1-B issues and only see how the program affects our workplaces. But it's important to realize there are professions other than tech that get paid a lot less than even the underpaid tech H1-B visa holders. And adjusting the program to fix problems in tech can easily break it for everyone else.

But I think there is a better way to fix the program and not have the kind of collateral damage that your plan would create. It's a method that's in use in many parts of the world and it works well...ratios. Let companies hire as many DHS-cleared immigrants as they want provided they also employ the requisite number of US citizens in similar roles.

Re: H-1B abuse: Bay Area tech workers from India paid a pittance, feds say

#66

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, May 02, 2018, 6:04 AM UTC

candiodari wrote: post #33

TangoTrotFox wrote: post #13

This is one thing I don't entirely understand in terms of political alignment. The one side that is supposed to be about the little guy seems to support this system of immigration which leads quite directly to depressed wages and exploitation of this sort. Even in cases where the 'guest workers' are not so ridiculously underpaid, companies still exploit the fact that these workers generally have to have this job or t…

This is why socialist in the vast majority of the 20th century were vehemently anti-immigration, and the right was pro-immigration. Immigration destroys labor, and rewards capital. You'd think "leftists" would have a problem with that. Or maybe it's just the pendulum swining back I guess. When democrats and republicans were young, new, parties, republicans were definitely left-wing and democrats were right-wing. Mayb…

> Immigration destroys labor

Free migration empowers labor in the same way that free movement of capital empowers capital; real immigration systems in capitalist regimes tend not to favor free and reciprocal movement but instead are regulated to favor domestic capital, but it's a foolish leftist that is opposed to free migration rather than migration regulated to favor capital.

OTOH, H-1B is one of the most blatantly capital-serving elements of the current US immigration[0] system.

[0] well, it's really a guest worker, not immigration, program, though it's possible for people to move into the immigration system directly from it.

Re: H-1B abuse: Bay Area tech workers from India paid a pittance, feds say

#67

Post by gnulinux » Wed, May 02, 2018, 6:06 AM UTC

youzicha wrote: post #37

tiff_seattle wrote: post #14

Why not just adjust the H-1B program so that the highest paid positions get priority? That way companies could still hire abroad for in-demand skills, but it would eliminate bringing people into the country to avoid paying the prevailing wages for IT workers. You could even make exceptions for academic or medical work as needed. It seems like a common sense adjustment to the program, but I don't see many people offer…

Exactly this was proposed last year in a bill with a democrat sponsor. But right now H1b is basically the only way to get hired as an immigrant. If you made it wage-prioritized there would be basically no way to get an h1b for entry level jobs, which would really suck for new graduates. http://alexyar.tumblr.com/post/156649015342/anyway-heres-the...

If you studied in a US university you don't need H1B visa for 3 years. You can work on OPT with F1 visa. However, OPT is very restricted, you job should be very close to what you studied in university and if you didn't study STEM you get only 1 year. That's how I worked in US as Software Engineer after studying Computer Science.

Re: H-1B abuse: Bay Area tech workers from India paid a pittance, feds say

#68

Post by ggg9990 » Wed, May 02, 2018, 6:07 AM UTC

manjunaths wrote: post #40

49bc wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I was living in India I’d probably take that deal.

I know that it is a common belief that India is 3rd world country and people would jump at any chance to get out. Not all of India is like that and not all of us are wage slaves doing menial jobs in IT. Some of us have a better quality of life, friends, family, culture and social life. Not to mention the amazing home food.

But most people anywhere would jump at a chance to live in another place for a couple of years even if it's ten to a room. I did that kind of shit when I was in my early 20s and don't regret it.

Re: H-1B abuse: Bay Area tech workers from India paid a pittance, feds say

#69

Post by biocomputation » Wed, May 02, 2018, 6:08 AM UTC

vkou wrote: post #9

Trundle wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You contributing to supply would still suppress wages though no?

I guess I should just not work for a living, then. I'm hoping that people making such an observation have native American ancestry.

In addition to being cheap and uncivil, it's absolutely unbelievable (but not surprising) that a foreign national here in this country as a guest of the American people thinks that it is in any way acceptable to say things like this.

You would do very well to advise yourself on the laws of the United States, which do not require ancestry from any particular place in order to qualify for citizenship. That includes people like you who also don't have any native American ancestry.

America is a sovereign country, and we the people have every right to make whatever laws we like about what qualifies someone for citizenship or entry into our country. You're not an American citizen, and you have no such rights. For example: that's why you can't vote.

One more thing: in America we have a word for people who believe someone's race disqualifies them speaking.

It starts with R.

Re: H-1B abuse: Bay Area tech workers from India paid a pittance, feds say

#70

Post by ggg9990 » Wed, May 02, 2018, 6:08 AM UTC

curun1r wrote: post #65

tiff_seattle wrote: post #14

Why not just adjust the H-1B program so that the highest paid positions get priority? That way companies could still hire abroad for in-demand skills, but it would eliminate bringing people into the country to avoid paying the prevailing wages for IT workers. You could even make exceptions for academic or medical work as needed. It seems like a common sense adjustment to the program, but I don't see many people offer…

That would result in tech workers continuing to be underpaid, just slightly less so, and other professions being complete non-starters for immigrants. Working in tech, it's easy to get myopic about H1-B issues and only see how the program affects our workplaces. But it's important to realize there are professions other than tech that get paid a lot less than even the underpaid tech H1-B visa holders. And adjusting th…

But those low paid professions should be nonstarters for immigrants. Can't hire enough nurses? If the pay floats up to React Native developer salaries, I'm sure you'll be able to.