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Microsoft helped imprison a man for ‘counterfeiting’ software it gives away free

techcrunch.com

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Re: Microsoft helped imprison a man for ‘counterfeiting’ software it gives away free

#61

Post by simion314 »

emodendroket wrote: post #38
simion314 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guy is guilty for that, the problem is the way damages were calculated and that they guy ended in prison instead of paying the damages.

To reuse the OP's example, I don't think someone running an enterprise devoted to selling counterfeit handbags would be subject only to civil liability.

From what I understand by reading and listening an interview with this guy, the issue is the damages were inflated so he can then be put in prison. IMO this case feels similar with cases where music/movie industry hyper-inflates the damages caused by someone that shared a file, because the companies have infinite budgets they can get away wit it.

Re: Microsoft helped imprison a man for ‘counterfeiting’ software it gives away free

#62

Post by kgwgk »

ilogik wrote: post #9
skate22 wrote: post #3

Title is missleading: "His actual crime, which he pleaded guilty to, was counterfeiting the packaging to make the discs pass for Dell-branded ones." He misled his customers in order to make money. This isnt really different than selling knock off gucci handbags. Sure they probably work & look the same, but it does damage to the legitimate brand.

My understanding was that he was changing $.75 (essentially the cost of the DVDs)?

According to his own appeal, he was selling them for $4 (he argued that was the right price, instead of $25, that should be used to calculate the infringement amount).

Re: Microsoft helped imprison a man for ‘counterfeiting’ software it gives away free

#63

Post by tialaramex »

petee wrote: post #26
lolc wrote: post #16

The title on the original is "How Microsoft helped imprison a man for ‘counterfeiting’ software it gives away for free". Even that title is misleading, but the shortened title here is wrong because "Free Software" has a specific meaning. Referring to Microsoft Windows as "free software" is just wrong. Microsoft Windows is not Free Software. Even if you leave out the caps intending to refer to price only, the title is…

It's not windows that's 'free', it's the recovery disk, which Microsoft allows anyone to download and burn for free.

That's only for personal use. Microsoft literally sells the exact product this was pretending to be for $25 ($20 for the crappy Home version, which they told the court was the appropriate comparison, the court disagreed and picked $25).

My local supermarket sometimes has little pieces of cheese on cocktail sticks to sample. Those are free too. If you eat six, and then run out of the supermarket, you're a dick, but they won't try to prosecute you for theft.

But if you say "Aha, cheese is free", reach over the counter and steal a whole wheel, expect to get prosecuted and don't expect a magistrate to buy your story about how clearly since individual pieces of cheese were given away therefore "cheese is free".

Re: Microsoft helped imprison a man for ‘counterfeiting’ software it gives away free

#64

Post by letsgetphysITal »

emodendroket wrote: post #56
letsgetphysITal wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't understand. Without the (license) key (which he didn't sell), these disks are coasters. Windows installations without a valid license key (or a crack, which he again didn't provide) are crippled after 30 days. These disks are only useful to people who already own a Windows license .

Perhaps you don't understand. He deliberately set out to deceive people into thinking they were buying genuine MS-produced discs when they were not.

But he was charged and convicted based upon unauthorised selling of licensed software, which he wasn't as he didn't sell licenses. What he did and what he was charged with are two separate things, which is what the entire article is about.

Re: Microsoft helped imprison a man for ‘counterfeiting’ software it gives away free

#65

Post by tripletao »

emodendroket wrote: post #38
simion314 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guy is guilty for that, the problem is the way damages were calculated and that they guy ended in prison instead of paying the damages.

To reuse the OP's example, I don't think someone running an enterprise devoted to selling counterfeit handbags would be subject only to civil liability.

Why is this getting downvoted? Under present American law, it's factually true. That doesn't make the valuation used for sentencing here correct, but counterfeit commercial goods in the USA really can be a criminal matter.

http://www.wafb.com/story/35675651/man-arrested-for-reported...

Re: Microsoft helped imprison a man for ‘counterfeiting’ software it gives away free

#66

Post by skate22 »

letsgetphysITal wrote: post #30
skate22 wrote: post #3

Title is missleading: "His actual crime, which he pleaded guilty to, was counterfeiting the packaging to make the discs pass for Dell-branded ones." He misled his customers in order to make money. This isnt really different than selling knock off gucci handbags. Sure they probably work & look the same, but it does damage to the legitimate brand.

You misunderstand. He was convicted of copyright infringement for selling unlicensed copies of Windows. He didn't do this, as copies of Windows aren't sold; they're licensed. As the article states, he didn't sell licenses. He sold recovery media which is available for free from the Microsoft website, and from OEM suppliers. He did admit to trademark infringement by reusing the protected Dell artwork on the disks, but…

Did he have the rights to distribute the recovery media?

Im guessing the terms and conditions on the official downloads include language preventing an individual from cracking the copy. I doubt he included that language with his distribution.

Re: Microsoft helped imprison a man for ‘counterfeiting’ software it gives away free

#67

Post by notahacker »

okasaki wrote: post #31
tripletao wrote: post #18

His punishment seems disproportionate and stupid (like, why are we spending money to lock him up instead of fining him more?); but he clearly intended to make disks that buyers would think were factory originals, and knew that he was breaking the law. From his email: > I can look in to the missing boxes - Usually in my history - Customs just ships them to you 3 weeks later. > If they call you - play stupid and just t…

Those seem like ideas on how to get past customs more easily, not necessarily an admission of any wrongdoing.

Lying to customs was the wrongdoing that initially saw him indicted.

The easy way to not have any issues with customs of course, would be to send disks without decoration as "blank CDs". Ockham's razor suggests this approach is the one you'd take if you meant to ship people a helpful installation CD at cost price.

Instead, he pays a lot of attention to whether they can pass for the real thing to customers, and then notes that for some product lines them looking like the real thing is forcing him to pay extra to send them airmail because customs check anything that looks like shipped software CDs with the licence holder...

Re: Microsoft helped imprison a man for ‘counterfeiting’ software it gives away free

#68

Post by jmull »

This article is quite disingenuous.

The lie is in the first sentence: "...15 months in prison for selling discs that let people reinstall Windows on licensed machines.

(emphasis mine)

The prosecution successfully argued the machines these discs were meant to be sold with did not have valid Windows licenses (and that these discs were part of an effort to avoid purchasing them).

You will want to find another article on this case to read about it since this dances fast to avoid addressing it.

We have a crime, a guilty plea, and sentencing. And a careful review in the appeal. Hard to see what's wrong here.

Re: Microsoft helped imprison a man for ‘counterfeiting’ software it gives away free

#69

Post by lolc »

tialaramex wrote: post #63
petee wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not windows that's 'free', it's the recovery disk, which Microsoft allows anyone to download and burn for free.

That's only for personal use. Microsoft literally sells the exact product this was pretending to be for $25 ($20 for the crappy Home version, which they told the court was the appropriate comparison, the court disagreed and picked $25). My local supermarket sometimes has little pieces of cheese on cocktail sticks to sample. Those are free too. If you eat six, and then run out of the supermarket, you're a dick, but th…

Maybe I'm mistaken but I thought the $25 copies of Windows sold by Microsoft included a licence?

Also equating unlicenced copies to theft of physical goods rarely helps to understand the case.

Re: Microsoft helped imprison a man for ‘counterfeiting’ software it gives away free

#70

Post by hennsen »

tialaramex wrote: post #63
petee wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not windows that's 'free', it's the recovery disk, which Microsoft allows anyone to download and burn for free.

That's only for personal use. Microsoft literally sells the exact product this was pretending to be for $25 ($20 for the crappy Home version, which they told the court was the appropriate comparison, the court disagreed and picked $25). My local supermarket sometimes has little pieces of cheese on cocktail sticks to sample. Those are free too. If you eat six, and then run out of the supermarket, you're a dick, but th…

Wouldn’t the appropriate comparison be collecting the free cheese test pieces in a bag and selling them outside at a cheese booth?
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