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Facebook Median Pay now $240k

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Re: Facebook Median Pay now $240k

#61

Post by Lionsion »

dx034 wrote: post #32
hliyan wrote: post #6

I've been thinking a lot about the merits of the (highest income / median income) ratio in creating a society that is a little more resistant to eventual inequality. Rather than setting absolute tax brackets, what if we define tax brackets by this ratio? That way, it will be in the interest of the highest income earners to raise the median income.

That sounds interesting but would probably be a paradise for tax lawyers. You just create a network of companies, one for each income band. That way, an employee never makes more than the average. Of course only large corperations can afford that so that smaller companies will have a harder time hiring talent.

> That sounds interesting but would probably be a paradise for tax lawyers. You just create a network of companies, one for each income band. That way, an employee never makes more than the average. Of course only large corperations can afford that so that smaller companies will have a harder time hiring talent.

You could probably define company, for the purposes of such a law, that excluded those kinds of structural shenanigans. Basically, define it in terms of its qualities rather than in terms of legal instruments.

I'd also guess that the IRS has already authored those definitions, or it at least a good distance of the way there.

Re: Facebook Median Pay now $240k

#62

Post by jaclaz »

kossae wrote: post #56
camillomiller wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the "Facebook" content screeners in Berlin, Germany, are actually employees of a contractor (Arvato-Bertelsmann) who is mostly hiring them through job agencies. They're in charge of deciding what has to be banned according to Facebook Community Guidelines. They get to see gore, suicide videos, racial slurs etc. all the time, with no proper psychological training. They earn minimum wage (around 10$ per hour) and t…

I’ve always been curious as to what “psychological training” would consist of to prepare for seeing such explicit content day in and day out. Perhaps something similar to military/war psychological practices?

Not exactly what you asked for, but similar enough:

https://www.forensicfocus.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=2329/

More than "training" it is "assistance" and "psychological support".

Re: Facebook Median Pay now $240k

#63

Post by Lionsion »

skybrian wrote: post #9
hliyan wrote: post #6

I've been thinking a lot about the merits of the (highest income / median income) ratio in creating a society that is a little more resistant to eventual inequality. Rather than setting absolute tax brackets, what if we define tax brackets by this ratio? That way, it will be in the interest of the highest income earners to raise the median income.

It's easily gamed by contracting out for lower paid workers. What if Facebook came in at highest median pay because it relies more on contractors than other companies? The data would be a bit more useful if they reported the job title of the median worker.

> It's easily gamed by contracting out for lower paid workers. What if Facebook came in at highest median pay because it relies more on contractors than other companies?

Easy gaming like that is easy to anticipate and account for. You just have to define "workers for the company" in a way that includes contractors and controlled entities, etc.

Re: Facebook Median Pay now $240k

#64

Post by Lionsion »

briandear wrote: post #10
adamnemecek wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There might be some regulatin coming their way.

Which will make their business even more solid as it will make it harder for new entrants.

That's sloppy thinking. Here's and example why: what if a new regulation new banned targeted advertising? That would kneecap FB's business model and unique value proposition while making it easier for new entrants, since they won't have to compete with FB's now-legally-useless data trove.

Re: Facebook Median Pay now $240k

#65

Post by ra1n85 »

cpeterso wrote: post #16
hliyan wrote: post #6

I've been thinking a lot about the merits of the (highest income / median income) ratio in creating a society that is a little more resistant to eventual inequality. Rather than setting absolute tax brackets, what if we define tax brackets by this ratio? That way, it will be in the interest of the highest income earners to raise the median income.

Ben & Jerry's originally capped the pay ratio of their highest salaried executive and lowest-earning-worker to 5:1 ($150,000/year and $12/hour in 1995), but over the years they raised the ratio to 7:1, 17:1, and then stopped sharing a ratio after Unilever acquired them in 2000. http://abcnews.go.com/Business/companies-follow-ben-jerrys-l...

Fascinating.

A hard ratio seems fair minded, but seemed to have failed here because I think there was a misunderstanding around compensation. Compensation is a product of many variables including value created for the company and supply/demand for skillset/talent. As a business climbs the value chain or seeks to hire and compensate those that create greater amounts of value, and it maintains a compensation ratio, it must seek to increase the value produced by the lowest earners (or lose business to competition).

Re: Facebook Median Pay now $240k

#66

Post by sethgecko »

Lionsion wrote: post #61
dx034 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds interesting but would probably be a paradise for tax lawyers. You just create a network of companies, one for each income band. That way, an employee never makes more than the average. Of course only large corperations can afford that so that smaller companies will have a harder time hiring talent.

> That sounds interesting but would probably be a paradise for tax lawyers. You just create a network of companies, one for each income band. That way, an employee never makes more than the average. Of course only large corperations can afford that so that smaller companies will have a harder time hiring talent. You could probably define company, for the purposes of such a law, that excluded those kinds of structural…

This way you are adding more complexity which in turn adds more loopholes. A good tax framework should be as simple as possible to avoid this type of shenanigans.

Re: Facebook Median Pay now $240k

#67

Post by Lionsion »

sethgecko wrote: post #66
Lionsion wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That sounds interesting but would probably be a paradise for tax lawyers. You just create a network of companies, one for each income band. That way, an employee never makes more than the average. Of course only large corperations can afford that so that smaller companies will have a harder time hiring talent. You could probably define company, for the purposes of such a law, that excluded those kinds of structural…

This way you are adding more complexity which in turn adds more loopholes. A good tax framework should be as simple as possible to avoid this type of shenanigans.

> This way you are adding more complexity which in turn adds more loopholes.

I don't agree. Simple but dumb rules lead to easy to exploit loopholes. Saying they shouldn't be fixed in the name of "simplicity" is like saying a particular unhanded-case bug shouldn't be fixed because the extra case adds "complexity."

> A good tax framework should be as simple as possible to avoid this type of shenanigans.

The idea we're discussing is one where the tax framework is used as an instrument of regulation. If a behavior is found to be detrimental to society, I think society should rise to the task of regulating it rather than shirk that responsibility because of a fear of "complexity."

Re: Facebook Median Pay now $240k

#68

Post by Kephael »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #52
fergie wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not a bubble. $240k is a reasonable salary for a professional with good grades from a good university working for a highly profitable private company. In fact as long as there is such a gap between revenue per employee, and compensation per employee, there will only be upward pressure on pay and conditions. In reality, software engineering salaries outside of established tech environments are kept artificially lo…

Its not a bubble. I'm pretty sure it is and I'm quite looking forward to seeing it burst.

When I attended Facebook university day, 100% of the students I spoke with were from top schools. The majority I spoke with were from Ivy League Universities, of the non Ivy League students, one was from MIT, two from UMD, one from UCLA, and one from UT Austin. This is not a bubble, this is them hiring the best. I have been in class with students who chose to enter software engineering at major companies rather than investment banking.

Re: Facebook Median Pay now $240k

#69

Post by ry_ry »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #52
fergie wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not a bubble. $240k is a reasonable salary for a professional with good grades from a good university working for a highly profitable private company. In fact as long as there is such a gap between revenue per employee, and compensation per employee, there will only be upward pressure on pay and conditions. In reality, software engineering salaries outside of established tech environments are kept artificially lo…

Its not a bubble. I'm pretty sure it is and I'm quite looking forward to seeing it burst.

Schadenfreude aside, why?

Edit: that sounded confrontational, it wasn't supposed to be - I'm just curious!

Re: Facebook Median Pay now $240k

#70

Post by f00biebletch »

fergie wrote: post #46
f00biebletch wrote: post #2

I've definitely felt the challenge of hiring in a startup as a result of these kinds of numbers. I'm curious what others think will come of this seeming bubble in compensation.

Its not a bubble. $240k is a reasonable salary for a professional with good grades from a good university working for a highly profitable private company. In fact as long as there is such a gap between revenue per employee, and compensation per employee, there will only be upward pressure on pay and conditions. In reality, software engineering salaries outside of established tech environments are kept artificially lo…

I was more looking at the differential between FB -> Alphabet -> Rest. As a member of the Rest in the Bay Area, hiring has become quantitatively more challenging in the last 12 months as FB continues to gobble up talent. Perhaps it's not so much a bubble as it is a deep, likely irreversible change to SV.
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