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Bulldoze the business school

theguardian.com

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Re: Bulldoze the business school

#61

Post by ams6110 »

Meegul wrote: post #48
throwawayjava wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Surely you shouldn't need to struggle in the dark so much to learn. You have it all wrong, IMO. Successfully clawing their way out of the dark is by far the most important skill they're learning.

I recently had to write a scheduling algorithm for our home-grown operating system. I was running into some very difficult to debug issues, so I asked my TA for help. They had no clue and told me to consult the professor. The professor wouldn't help. Our textbook offered no guidance. We're not allowed to discuss projects whatsoever with other students. So after north of 5 hours spread over a few days of trying to fig…

5 hours over a few days is nothing. You gave up too soon.

Re: Bulldoze the business school

#62

Post by QML »

seanahrens wrote: post #21

My finance professor at the Haas School of Business at UC Berkeley preached that maximizing profit was our ultimate service to the world---so much so--that he taught that if we were running a company and had an option to maximize profits by producing a product that would seriously harm the health of people (eg. give them a medical condition), we should undoubtedly DO IT. Because we would have maximized profit for sha…

Did you already have a majority of the engineering prerequisites before deciding to switch into EECS after two years?

Re: Bulldoze the business school

#63

Post by zrobotics »

pcmoney wrote: post #26

1. He makes a good point 2. Its not the point he thinks he makes 3. Full disclosure one of my degrees is a B.S in finance but I work as an engineer. He makes a point that "At the end of it all, most business-school graduates won’t become high-level managers anyway, just precarious cubicle drones in anonymous office blocks." But isn't that true of most degrees? I would argue even most STEM grads end up in the cubicle…

"How about people who know a field and are in the field are more likely to commit a crime in it? I am sure the number of blue collar embezzlement is dominated by plumbers/electricians etc."

I think you entirely missed what the article said. The claim was not that most white-collar crime is committed by managers, but that the individuals most likely to commit a crime were either b-school grads or veterans. In your example, this would be like union electricians committing more fraud than their non-union counterparts.

Re: Bulldoze the business school

#64

Post by quadrangle »

bspn wrote: post #59
seanahrens wrote: post #21

My finance professor at the Haas School of Business at UC Berkeley preached that maximizing profit was our ultimate service to the world---so much so--that he taught that if we were running a company and had an option to maximize profits by producing a product that would seriously harm the health of people (eg. give them a medical condition), we should undoubtedly DO IT. Because we would have maximized profit for sha…

It doesn't sound like this is the case with your professor, but this is actually an increasingly common technique used by professors to weed out the rote-learners. They "teach" deliberately provocative material/view-points and then include it in the exam in the form of a "discuss ..." type question. People who have properly engaged and thought about the material will argue their counter-point while those who simply r…

Unfortunately, the very people who should get weeded out this way become professors themselves commonly enough!

Re: Bulldoze the business school

#65

Post by gaius »

baybal2 wrote: post #20
walshemj wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original idea of bschools where they where for mid career mangers where considered high flyers. Now it seems the higher level degree status is used to game visa applications. Maybe a MBA should only be issued if you can prove 10 or 15 years real world work experience which would return the MBA to its roots as a course for experienced people

No respectable business school should admit people without substantial existing work experience into any graduate course. Unfortunately, it looks that more than a half of big name universities are happy to admit people without such, or even no undergraduate studies background.

No respectable business school should admit people without substantial existing work experience into any graduate course.

All the top US MBA programmes are stuffed with people with 2-3 years investment banking or management consulting as their sole experience.

The concept of a management consultant is possibly even more ridiculous to begin with

Re: Bulldoze the business school

#66

Post by gaius »

seanahrens wrote: post #21

My finance professor at the Haas School of Business at UC Berkeley preached that maximizing profit was our ultimate service to the world---so much so--that he taught that if we were running a company and had an option to maximize profits by producing a product that would seriously harm the health of people (eg. give them a medical condition), we should undoubtedly DO IT. Because we would have maximized profit for sha…

Has this professor ever actually worked in industry? I would like to know so I can avoid those companies.

Re: Bulldoze the business school

#67

Post by purplezooey »

factsaresacred wrote: post #49
laurentl wrote: post #45

I recently finished an executive MBA at a top European B-school. To echo some of the comments, it was overall way easier than my initial studies (eng school), with some exceptions such as a brutal strategy assignment. There was also a sense of entitlement from some of the participants, especially those who were financed by their company. “Entertain me and give me my diploma” so to speak. On the other hand, due to the…

> This was in 2017 and I assume they had at least heard of the subprime crisis Brings to mind this from Peter Thiel (exclude the length): Q. You’ve written that you doubt the efficacy of MBA programs to prepare future business leaders. What would an effective MBA program look like? A. The question is, what substance of business are you focused on? The conceit of the MBA is that you don’t need to have any substance at…

And we should listen to Peter Thiel because....

Re: Bulldoze the business school

#68

Post by ismail »

ukulele wrote: post #41
seanahrens wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah he definitely was a bad professor. Sad that he was the finance professor (for this required, main track course) every undergrad my year had. Which meant, I think, 300-400 students received his indoctrination that semester. I use him as an example because that moment was so, well, exemplary. Other courses weren't as extreme, but they generally echoed the core tenet: your goal is "maximize profit" with sometimes a…

The problem was discussed several times across different courses for us. Essentially this is all based on Friedman's book Capitalism and Freedom, which says: > There is one and only one social responsibility of business – to use its resources and engage in activities designed to increase its profits That is the basis for the argument your professor made. However, the passage in its entirety is: > There is one and onl…

Just curious are b-schools in the states still teaching with this ideology?

Here in South Africa this view is intially discussed but soon after the negative consequences of this view. Long term sustainability is a big focus area, specifically around the SDG.

Have posted another more detailed comment. Below

Re: Bulldoze the business school

#69

Post by bduerst »

speleding wrote: post #40
mbesto wrote: post #6

Drucker, the person most attributed with founding modern management, himself stated that you cannot teach management: Prof Drucker expounds: "Teaching 23-year-olds in an MBA programme strikes me as largely a waste of time. They lack the background of experience. You can teach them skills - accounting and what have you - but you can't teach them management." His view is that management is neither an art nor a science…

The top MBA programs require that applicants have at least 4 years of work experience.

Most accredited MBA programs do too. This quote about 23 year olds is attacking a straw man.

Re: Bulldoze the business school

#70

Post by cycrutchfield »

seanahrens wrote: post #21

My finance professor at the Haas School of Business at UC Berkeley preached that maximizing profit was our ultimate service to the world---so much so--that he taught that if we were running a company and had an option to maximize profits by producing a product that would seriously harm the health of people (eg. give them a medical condition), we should undoubtedly DO IT. Because we would have maximized profit for sha…

>Luckily I had enough time left in undergrad after this lecture to switch to studying computer science at the College of Engineering

Uh, so you did a double major with Business Administration in Haas and EECS in the CoE? I'm going to call BS here.

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