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Why is Ember fading away?

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Re: Why is Ember fading away?

#61

Post by handbanana »

parthdesai wrote: post #46
tashoecraft wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may want to look at Angular. They adopted the ember cli to create a standard way of starting a project and organizing it.

but then you have to use Angular. You pay performance penalties and as someone who learnt React before Angular, two way data binding doesn't make that much sense. ( i know angular 4 uses state based model, but then might as well use react at that point.)

I assume tashoecraft was referring to the latest version of Angular - which I believe is 5. And 6 is right around the corner. I would make an educated guess that the most recent Angular is not user perceptibly slower than React for most applications.

Everything is a trade off, so if you value structure and convention over raw speed then Angular would make sense over React. Also, I imagine the latest versions of angular are faster than Ember (but I don't actually know).

Re: Why is Ember fading away?

#62

Post by wink »

I'm not surprised, I've had mostly negative experiences with Ember. We wrote a pretty small web app and several of my colleagues had immense problems getting into it and making changes. (People who had JS experience and had used other stuff in the past.) We ended up rewriting it completely in a week (as I said, it was small) into AngularJS and no one ever complained again.

Re: Why is Ember fading away?

#63

Post by oneplusone »

chrisjshull wrote: post #60

I see a lot of people who like ember-cli, but after the first few minutes I just found it frustrating. Granted, this was a little over a year ago, but at that time if you simply wanted a npm module in your code you had to do all the extra work to wrap it in an ember plugin. IMO, this severely slowed down the ecosystem.

As far as I know it has never been required to wrap an NPM module in an add-on. I have used Ember since pre 1.0 and you could have just ember-browserify for the last 3-4 years to pull in an npm module.

Re: Why is Ember fading away?

#65

Post by megaman22 »

hardwaresofton wrote: post #51

In my mind, if you need a large framework that a whole team can use day in and day out, Ember is the go-to choice. It's got a lot of batteries included and the learning curve is pretty steep, but it has patterns and a way to do things for just about everything. It's also been rapidly absorbing the best parts of other frameworks and approaches -- fastboot, glimmer, etc. - Angular had the spot, then bumbled the transit…

> One of the biggest problems with ember of course, is the breakneck pace of change. I think it's slowed down somewhat recently, but keeping up with it can feel like a full time job sometimes, if you get stuck behind for too long, it gets harder and harder to update your codebase.

If there's somewhere in the front-end world where this is not the case, short of going back to jQuery spaghetti, I'd love to find it. We're largely settled in with AngularJS, having caught it after the crest, so that is largely settled, but everything around it is moving and breaking and deprecating things left and right. I always feel like we're standing on quicksand, just waiting for some bower or npm package to get yanked out from under our feet.

Compared to the back-end, where things move at a much, much slower rate of change, it is a little maddening to see the churn in JS-land. I have NuGet packages that I use all the time that haven't seen more than minor-minor version updates in three years - and that's fine, they work, they're stable, there's no reason to burn it down and flex it all around every three months. But that's also a benefit of being in the Microsoft ecosystem, where backwards-compatibility is prized.

Re: Why is Ember fading away?

#66

Post by parthdesai »

handbanana wrote: post #61
parthdesai wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but then you have to use Angular. You pay performance penalties and as someone who learnt React before Angular, two way data binding doesn't make that much sense. ( i know angular 4 uses state based model, but then might as well use react at that point.)

I assume tashoecraft was referring to the latest version of Angular - which I believe is 5. And 6 is right around the corner. I would make an educated guess that the most recent Angular is not user perceptibly slower than React for most applications. Everything is a trade off, so if you value structure and convention over raw speed then Angular would make sense over React. Also, I imagine the latest versions of angul…

Hmm, tbh i haven't kept up with Angular so i wouldn't know for sure.

There was Addy Osmani's talk on performances of different JS frameworks and Angular was the slowest. Slower than what chrome team recommends :)

Re: Why is Ember fading away?

#67

Post by atonse »

davedx wrote: post #37
atonse wrote: post #31

I still strongly favor Ember for exactly the reasons React and other frameworks simply haven't caught up: the out of the box experience. I can start building an actual app within 3 minutes of typing "ember new" – with React, I'd spend the first couple of days just fiddling around with build scripts. Sure, there are now react boilerplates that do this, but there are too many out there to properly evaluate what to use.…

> I can start building an actual app within 3 minutes of typing "ember new" – with React, I'd spend the first couple of days just fiddling around with build scripts. > Sure, there are now react boilerplates that do this, but there are too many out there to properly evaluate what to use. Why not just make it a part of the framework? create-react-app [1] is the official out-of-the-box CLI for React apps. It's maintaine…

As recently as 6 months ago I had react developers point me to a couple different boilerplates. So my info on this is a bit skewed. Good to check into this.

Re: Why is Ember fading away?

#68

Post by coldtea »

heckanoobs wrote: post #47
coldtea wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think there is a lot of tribalism in the js community and liking one framework (often the one you use for work) is synonymous with hating the others. As in nature in general, it helps, from an evolutionary standpoint. Having too many, and letting them all be, instead of people rooting for their favorite and having one or two emerge as the leaders, leads to dispersion of resources, confusion for newcomers, and mul…

There's no reason you can't have a 5/5 framework with huge community and support. Tribalism leads to choosing between two hobbled solutions because it closes the door on teamwork across tribes. Ember has its flaws but their upgrade strategy is world class. Every maintainer of an open source project should at least be familiar; but how can that happen when ppl happily report they "have heard of Ember and would NOT use…

>There's no reason you can't have a 5/5 framework with huge community and support.

There's no law of physics preventing it. I'll give you that.

But between fragmentation of effort, few full-time collaborators, no funding for less interesting work, and other such things, there are many reasons we can't (and don't) have any 5/5 frameworks with huge community and support.

Re: Why is Ember fading away?

#69

Post by coldtea »

anoncoward778 wrote: post #38
coldtea wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think there is a lot of tribalism in the js community and liking one framework (often the one you use for work) is synonymous with hating the others. As in nature in general, it helps, from an evolutionary standpoint. Having too many, and letting them all be, instead of people rooting for their favorite and having one or two emerge as the leaders, leads to dispersion of resources, confusion for newcomers, and mul…

You have literally said....nothing. And 5/5 is 1 genius.

>You have literally said....nothing.

From a comment without any substance, this is rich.

>And 5/5 is 1 genius

Besides, the ad-hominem, I was referring to a quality rating (as in "5 out of 5 stars") not a generic ratio.

But even at that, 5/5 (1) is bigger than 3/5 (0.6), so the point remains, either way you look at it, Erdos.

Re: Why is Ember fading away?

#70

Post by berkes »

3pt14159 wrote: post #41

I'll take a counter view here. Ember shines best when building very UI rich, complex front end apps. Not apps that need to work on shitty connections or devices. Apps you would use from your office in NY or Toronto. But the sad fact is that there just aren't that many frontend apps out there, relatively speaking. Ember is hard to learn because you need to learn a lot to get things done, and most people building somet…

> Not apps that need to work on shitty connections or devices.

Curious, why would you say that? I've only ever dabbled with Ember a little, never built anything production-ready with it. But I did have to maintain an Angular (1) app. And that thing was chatty as hell. I was the backend dev, and developed the REST api that our apps and this Angular bowl-of-spagetti communicated with.

Where ember has, built in, localstorage caching and even some cool REST-sync systems, angular has none of that. The closest I could get was angular-resources, which is a ORM-alike-approach to communicating with a REST backend. Proper HTTP-caching headers, Etag caching and so on, allowed leveraging the browsers-caching to avoid some calls, but Ember has a far neater and cleaner way to talk to such a backend.

This is just an anecdote, but I was pretty convinced that from all the JS-frameworks, ember had the "get data in- and out of a REST backend" solved the nicest, fastest and cleanest.

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