Facebook Can’t Be Fixed, It Needs to Be Broken Up • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook Can’t Be Fixed, It Needs to Be Broken Up

#61

Post by KozmoNau7 » Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 6:11 AM UTC

doomlaser wrote: post #58

paxys wrote: post #45

Broken up into what exactly? If you don't like Facebook don't use it. How about the Senate and the internet outrage machine spend time on companies like Equifax instead, who (1) we literally cannot opt out of, (2) have private data that we didn't choose to share with them, and (3) have broken actual laws but haven't received as much as a slap on the wrist for it.

Zuckerberg's talking point from his AP photographed note sheet ( https://i.imgur.com/3UP1b4X.jpg ) is a good one. If you break up the major US tech platforms, it cedes leadership of those sectors to Chinese competitors. Something to think about in discussions about breaking up Facebook, Amazon, and Google.

So they're "too big to fail"?

If you break of the platforms into smaller separate companies, why would that cede leadership to Chinese companies?

Re: Facebook Can’t Be Fixed, It Needs to Be Broken Up

#62

Post by a1a » Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 6:11 AM UTC

paxys wrote: post #45

Broken up into what exactly? If you don't like Facebook don't use it. How about the Senate and the internet outrage machine spend time on companies like Equifax instead, who (1) we literally cannot opt out of, (2) have private data that we didn't choose to share with them, and (3) have broken actual laws but haven't received as much as a slap on the wrist for it.

Firstly, it is not possible to opt out of facebook. [1] And they do indeed collect private data that we didn't choose to share (shadow accounts, third party website trackers, etc).

Facebook have broken "actual laws". There are so many cases were facebook have broken the law. [2] [3]

Also, please read up on Fallacy of relative privation ("not as bad as").

[1] https://boingboing.net/2017/11/08/involuntary-profiling.html

[2] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/feb/12/facebook-...

[3] https://techcrunch.com/2018/02/19/facebooks-tracking-of-non-...

Re: Facebook Can’t Be Fixed, It Needs to Be Broken Up

#63

Post by tyingq » Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 6:11 AM UTC

thejerz wrote: post #53

tyingq wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a strong draw for many of us. It's the only reasonable way I have to see pictures and updates from my family that's pretty far flung across the world. Convincing all my kids, grandkids, siblings, cousins, in laws, nieces, nephews, etc to move away from FB isn't really practical. I do use FB mostly read only, but there isn't really a way for me to leave.

> but there isn't really a way for me to leave. You speak as if you have no agency in the situation. But, you do have agency. Using, or not using, facebook is 100%, entirely your choice . There was a happy (happier?) world before 2005, where families shared photos and stayed in touch, without Mark Zuckerberg.

Yes, I have the agency to lose touch with people I care about, because it's not practical for me to convince them all to use a different medium. It is the FB moat. It's real.

Re: Facebook Can’t Be Fixed, It Needs to Be Broken Up

#64

Post by hailk » Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 6:15 AM UTC

colinjoy wrote: post #57

paxys wrote: post #45

Broken up into what exactly? If you don't like Facebook don't use it. How about the Senate and the internet outrage machine spend time on companies like Equifax instead, who (1) we literally cannot opt out of, (2) have private data that we didn't choose to share with them, and (3) have broken actual laws but haven't received as much as a slap on the wrist for it.

Why do you suggest one can “opt out” of facebook? They profile non-members and encourage users to disclose personal data of non-members by installing apps or helping them to “find my friends” based on sharing such data (e.g. address books). #1 and #2 apply to facebook as well. We might find out about #3.

How do they profile non-members or even people who've either deactivated their accounts or aren't using them? If I don't log in how does invites affect me? All they could possibly have is my phone number and email. Which aren't exactly private information anyway.

Re: Facebook Can’t Be Fixed, It Needs to Be Broken Up

#65

Post by Moru » Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 6:15 AM UTC

thejerz wrote: post #53

tyingq wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a strong draw for many of us. It's the only reasonable way I have to see pictures and updates from my family that's pretty far flung across the world. Convincing all my kids, grandkids, siblings, cousins, in laws, nieces, nephews, etc to move away from FB isn't really practical. I do use FB mostly read only, but there isn't really a way for me to leave.

> but there isn't really a way for me to leave. You speak as if you have no agency in the situation. But, you do have agency. Using, or not using, facebook is 100%, entirely your choice . There was a happy (happier?) world before 2005, where families shared photos and stayed in touch, without Mark Zuckerberg.

It hasn't been a choice for a long time. 10 years ago I started getting emails from facebook showing me others that I knew that had shared their address books with facebook, giving them my name and other contact details. Mapping all my friends together if they use facebook or not. Tagging friends on images uploaded to facebook. Visiting pages that have the facebook pixel on them.

Re: Facebook Can’t Be Fixed, It Needs to Be Broken Up

#66

Post by reitanqild » Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 6:18 AM UTC

tyingq wrote: post #42

robotresearcher wrote: post #35

There is a very simple alternative to Facebook: don’t use Facebook. That’s the competition. There is nothing quite the same but there are lots of other things to do online.

There is a strong draw for many of us. It's the only reasonable way I have to see pictures and updates from my family that's pretty far flung across the world. Convincing all my kids, grandkids, siblings, cousins, in laws, nieces, nephews, etc to move away from FB isn't really practical. I do use FB mostly read only, but there isn't really a way for me to leave.

After a few months of nagging I've now moved all messaging of facebook properties and over to other channels, mostly to Telegram.

It took time but everybody is happy now : )

I still sometimes miss the family blig we used to have but updates are more frequent and the threshold for contributing is lower than it used to be.

Re: Facebook Can’t Be Fixed, It Needs to Be Broken Up

#67

Post by Moru » Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 6:18 AM UTC

tyingq wrote: post #63

thejerz wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but there isn't really a way for me to leave. You speak as if you have no agency in the situation. But, you do have agency. Using, or not using, facebook is 100%, entirely your choice . There was a happy (happier?) world before 2005, where families shared photos and stayed in touch, without Mark Zuckerberg.

Yes, I have the agency to lose touch with people I care about, because it's not practical for me to convince them all to use a different medium. It is the FB moat. It's real.

I decided to do this a long time ago. I use the phone the normal way and other real social settings to keep up with my friends. I'm at my stress limit already since long so this wasn't such a hard decision. My well beeing and my familys goes before anything else. Avoid a burnout, it's very damaging to your world when it hits you.

Re: Facebook Can’t Be Fixed, It Needs to Be Broken Up

#68

Post by return1 » Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 6:18 AM UTC

manigandham wrote: post #50

ravenstine wrote: post #46

Facebook is already dying. Why even bother?

Dying by which metric exactly? The billions in USD profit or the billions of monthly active users?

but newspapers say it is dying , so it must be dying. And that's just a taste of what 'objective' news means.

Re: Facebook Can’t Be Fixed, It Needs to Be Broken Up

#69

Post by twblalock » Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 6:18 AM UTC

Back in the 90s people thought Microsoft was too dominant, could not be fixed, and needed to be broken up. It turns out they were wrong, because competition from companies and technologies nobody saw coming knocked Microsoft off its pedestal.

Few would have predicted the dominance of Facebook back in 2004. And few will predict the next big thing that will break Facebook's dominance.

All this talk about the government breaking up Facebook is likely just as short-sighted as the talk about the government breaking up Microsoft in the 90s.

Re: Facebook Can’t Be Fixed, It Needs to Be Broken Up

#70

Post by ILikeConemowk » Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 6:19 AM UTC

paxys wrote: post #45

Broken up into what exactly? If you don't like Facebook don't use it. How about the Senate and the internet outrage machine spend time on companies like Equifax instead, who (1) we literally cannot opt out of, (2) have private data that we didn't choose to share with them, and (3) have broken actual laws but haven't received as much as a slap on the wrist for it.

>How about the Senate and the internet outrage machine spend time on companies like Equifax instead

You have not understood what this outrage is about. Trump's campaign didn't use data from the Equifax breach to win the election, so it doesn't matter.

No, it also doesn't matter that Obama did the same and boasted about it. He is a visionary, Trump is a baddie.

Do you get it? Trump baddie, all other politicians, unless Republicans, goodies.

If I had known that Trump winning would be enough to get some of my friends off Facebook, I would have urged all my American friends to vote for him!

Oh, well.