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Tell HN: 17 years on the same game

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61–70 of 141 posts

Re: Tell HN: 17 years on the same game

#61
I used to play Solace (a Dragonlance-based MUD) a lot from when I was 13 and for many years after. Looking back now, it helped me immensely with learning English as a foreign language and taught me to type very fast, so it was quite useful in a way. My parents didn’t think so, of course, since I often skipped classes in school, and then in college, to play. We didn’t have Internet at home, so I had to play with friends in an ancient Soviet computer class with CRT screen-only black-white terminals and ancient keyboards; this is how I had to leave the basics of Unix, too.

Fast forward a few years, I became a lead dev/immortal for this MUD (first signed up with another friend as volunteers to fix bugs in the code by sending patches to the lead imm who couldn’t program well, but we added an obfuscated loophole allowing us to stream the codebase through mud client itself, at which point the mud’s management had to enlist us fully and then they gave it up to us) and this is how I learned programming on a large scale (dozens/hundred lines of code, iirc), C/C++, socket programming, version control - more importantly, I learned what a big codebase should not look like. Good times...

Re: Tell HN: 17 years on the same game

#62
I played the Discworld MUD about the same time you started, or maybe a little before.

One Summer holiday night, having played pretty constantly for every day of the previous week, I dreamed in highlighted terminal text of being beaten up by three old ladies with frying pans.

I stopped playing the day after, and haven't played a MUD or MMORPG since.

Re: Tell HN: 17 years on the same game

#63
MUDs are why I am a programmer today. I had tried some programming in BASIC and I just didn't know what to write, or the things I did write seemed trivial and pointless.

I was trying to become a max level on Medievia at about the same time, and the grinding (killing 1000 bunnies) was getting very boring. When I found out my ZMUD client offered some basic scripting and trigger capabilities, I set out to create my first leveling bot. It was blood sweat and tears, lots of learning through trial and error, and the bot would still do dumb things and crash half the time, but the spark had been ignited.

I never looked back.

Re: Tell HN: 17 years on the same game

#64

In the mid-90s, I took my bored then-girlfriend to the local University library computer lab and introduced her to MUDs. When they shut off the building lights late that night I had to pry her away from the computer terminal. (Neither of us were students, so getting caught there after closing might not have been good.) A few years later, I would play up to 16 hours straight with a lady who lived 1000 miles away (and…

But how did you escape undetected?

Re: Tell HN: 17 years on the same game

#66

In the mid-90s, I took my bored then-girlfriend to the local University library computer lab and introduced her to MUDs. When they shut off the building lights late that night I had to pry her away from the computer terminal. (Neither of us were students, so getting caught there after closing might not have been good.) A few years later, I would play up to 16 hours straight with a lady who lived 1000 miles away (and…

I, too, met my now-wife on a MUD back in the mid 90s. It's a great story to tell, especially now in the age of Match.com and the like.

"How did you know she wasn't some 300lb neck-beard named Jerry?"

"I didn't. But Jerry would have had to be one hell of an actor."

We clocked in a lot of hours in that place before I packed my life up and drove 2500 miles to be together.

Re: Tell HN: 17 years on the same game

#67

a question on maintenance and all that. what kind of machines are required to maintain these? the client talks about flash and or websockets, so some sort of servers have to be maintained... I know servers are fairly cheap now.. that would be a cool story too.. If its been running for 30 years, how much memory/storage does the world take? I had a Java programming examples book and it had a simple MUD implemented in a…

You can literally run a MUD server on a toaster. More specifically, a 486 or Pentium would not be a good fit, but literally anything else would work. :D

The only thing you need is good internet. If your internet connection doesn't tend to completely fail (a small bit of latency and the rare crash shouldn't be the end of the world) then you're honestly good to go.

If you want to run this on a server, you're looking at around $10/mo for something decent, and if you scout around hard you may be able to get something for less. Google Compute Engine quietly let you have 600MB of RAM and 1GB of bandwidth per month for free, for example. :P

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Your profile mentions PHP and Node.JS. Of the two, Node.JS is probably the better choice to build something like this with - PHP's network/socket handling has a few sharp edges that make it occasionally fall over, and for a social project like a MUD, you'll get death-by-a-thousand-papercuts in the form of "...PHP?!" all the time, so there's that as well.

Obviously Java would work fine too; Node's advantages over Java in a context like this are lower grammatical verbosity and zero compile time.

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The first thing I'd recommend is poking around to understand how to do both telnet and websocket based networking.

Websockets will handle modern browser clients and cover 99% of a fledgling MUD's connections. Telnet will handle the die-hards who, if they come back, might stay for a while :P

Start with telnet first: you need to decide how you want the text UI to work. You can leave telnet out until you have everything else doing interesting things, but I strongly advise having at least a basic understanding of how VT100 emulation works from the start (while you're still in the design stage), or whatever you build may be extremely difficult to get working inside telnet.

Some web MUD clients just wrap a VT100 session hosted on the server with some websocket trickery and do things that way. That's a good way to do things, because it means people who want to stick with telnet don't really lose anything.

Websockets is just a networking system and is mostly fun to work with; to get started just find a library you like and tinker with it.

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As for gamedev, I recommend studying existing MUD systems, not with the intention of drowning yourself in how they all work (which will be disasterous), but to get an idea of how they structure their world info - what's where, how navigation works, etc etc.

Ultimately there are (AFAIK) few gotchas and MUD development is quite simple - rooms are connected to other rooms, and things happen - but it's a good idea to think through how you want to architect how rooms connect together so you can eg easily get at the bigger picture, and think about how you want interactions and cause/effect state to be maintained and associated with players.

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Re: Tell HN: 17 years on the same game

#68
post #44

Hey, I still play MUDs too! It's an underappreciated kind of game, but I understand why it's not accessible to most. I play over at Dead of Night (deadofnight.org) - pop in, the multiclassing system is ridiculous and awesome. I think MUDs vs. Visual Games is analogous to Books vs. Movies. Yes, movies will always be able to achieve a level of graphical impressiveness that a book can't. What a movie can't do is give a…

One thing I really dont like about Witcher 3 is that you hear the voice of "yourself", and that voice sounds like a WWE wrestler. I never thought about it before, but I now realise how important it is for immersion to let the player imagine their own voice in the game (as in GTA, Skyrim, and Red Dead Redemption). Allowing players to use their imagination is so important.

In the Witcher 3 you are playing a specific character created by the developers. It's a bit like a JRPG in that sense. Most western RPGs have you play as your own character.

Re: Tell HN: 17 years on the same game

#69

Awesome. Why didn't MUDs ever go rogue-like ... with simple 2D tile-graphics? I think a few tried and failed, but wondering why that was. Seemed like everyone jumped to Everquest(crack) when it hit the scene, we seem to have skipped the 2D.

They did. Look at Ultima Online and other very early MMORPGs. They were called 'Graphical MUDs'.

Re: Tell HN: 17 years on the same game

#70

Awesome. Why didn't MUDs ever go rogue-like ... with simple 2D tile-graphics? I think a few tried and failed, but wondering why that was. Seemed like everyone jumped to Everquest(crack) when it hit the scene, we seem to have skipped the 2D.

Some of the simpler muds worked quite well with the zMUD automapper[1] which would try to parse the room descriptions and build/navigate the map.

I remember trying to get it working for Discworld, but the richness of the world descriptions (which varied depending on weather, light level, and all sorts of other factors), along with spontaneous info messages, made it very hard to extract reliably.

My complete lack of knowledge about parsing & text processing probably didn't help matters, and I learned a lot building triggers and other (mostly tolerated) automation back in the day.

One particular feature/challenge I remember was the UU library, which in order to navigate around, switched from cardinal directions (go east; go west; ...) to relative (turn left; forward; forward; turn right), so you had to keep track of your rotation. Combined with deviously constructed routes, it didn't take much to get hopelessly lost, which as the entire point I think :)

A lot of that subtlety would be lost in a simple tiled map, as would all the (often extremely verbose and entertaining) world descriptions.

Add that to the fact that almost all were player/volunteer-built worlds, and graphical art is a much harder field to dabble in than text, probably explains why graphics-first waited until commercial developments like EQ.

[1] http://www.oocities.org/timessquare/dungeon/6091/automap1.gi...

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