The defiance of an 'untouchable' New York subway worker • Hacker News Board

Re: The defiance of an 'untouchable' New York subway worker

#61

Post by patrickg_zill » Mon, Mar 26, 2018, 4:13 PM UTC

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #37

retSava wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That might be the case, but the constant reminder of race is very weird to me. As in, it's very common to denote someone to be "black" or "white" or "hispanic" and so on. I can understand this to some extent when it comes to describing how someone looks (eg police warrant) but in most other contexts... it's just feels very strange with the obsession of what color/origin someone has/is.

Funny how centuries of race based slavery and discrimination will do that.

It's deliberate and used to keep people divided.

Look at the 16 or so classes of the "sistema de castas" that the Spanish American areas used., for example.

PS no hispanics were ever enslaved in Canada and the United States.

Re: The defiance of an 'untouchable' New York subway worker

#62

Post by virtuexru » Mon, Mar 26, 2018, 4:14 PM UTC

quantummkv wrote: post #17

A better way to allegorize the Indian caste system would be the racism in USA. No one in urban centers or in the new generations is racist against black people. Go to the folks from the older generations and in the hinterlands and you will find that racism still exists somewhat. A similar trend is present in India. The new kids in urban centers don't care about caste. The old people in the villages and hinterlands? T…

> No one in urban centers or in the new generations is racist against black people.

Excuse me?

Re: The defiance of an 'untouchable' New York subway worker

#63

Post by TheCoelacanth » Mon, Mar 26, 2018, 4:17 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #51

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New York is not part of the Roman or Incan empires last time I checked.

Yet, they also lack the deep institutionalized racial slavery connection. Despite what people think slavery is actually more expensive than providing subsistence level pay. Due to the constant immigration influx and institutions like indentured servitude slavery was never important to New York's economy and by avoiding the slavery trap they actually had much stronger economic growth. NYC did see slavery from 1655 (fi…

There was slavery in New York in 1626 before the first auction. 1626-1827 is two centuries. You are also ignoring the "and discrimination" part of the statement that I made. New York had segregated neighborhoods until much later such as Stuyvesant Town which opened in 1947. NYC is also famous for its racially biased stop-and-frisk policy which lasted into the 21st century. Overall, it's pretty clear that my statement that there was "centuries of race based slavery and discrimination" is accurate even for New York.

Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/...

Re: The defiance of an 'untouchable' New York subway worker

#64

Post by walshemj » Mon, Mar 26, 2018, 4:24 PM UTC

quantummkv wrote: post #17

A better way to allegorize the Indian caste system would be the racism in USA. No one in urban centers or in the new generations is racist against black people. Go to the folks from the older generations and in the hinterlands and you will find that racism still exists somewhat. A similar trend is present in India. The new kids in urban centers don't care about caste. The old people in the villages and hinterlands? T…

Oh really not that long-ago in the UK we had high caste member of our team say that they could not socialise with us in at particular venue as that would make him unclean.

There is also a lot of evidence of caste discrimination in the UK otherwise why was caste discrimination added to the protected groups in the UK, I know one of the MP's involved

Re: The defiance of an 'untouchable' New York subway worker

#65

Post by jbros » Mon, Mar 26, 2018, 4:33 PM UTC

mcguire wrote: post #30

The child of "college teachers" and a former "researcher in applied physics" at IIT is now a train conductor with the New York subway? This is a good thing?

Yes. Please ask any of the marginalized persons in the us. About half of ALL transgender youth commit suicide - they would rather die than experience hate.

We also forget that their are people still alive today that experienced racial segregation. Many will gladly tell their story.

Re: The defiance of an 'untouchable' New York subway worker

#66

Post by scythe » Mon, Mar 26, 2018, 4:44 PM UTC

akgerber wrote: post #57

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any data to back that up? Really curious.

Conductors average $62k/year: https://bizfluent.com/info-12099370-salary-new-york-city-tra... It's a decent middle class job.

An physics postdoc should pull in 40-60k (mean 49k) without an NYC CoL so I'm not sure subway conductor is better. Adjunct salaries can be disgustingly low but that's mostly in the humanities AFAIK.

Re: The defiance of an 'untouchable' New York subway worker

#67

Post by abhi3 » Mon, Mar 26, 2018, 4:59 PM UTC

quantummkv wrote: post #17

A better way to allegorize the Indian caste system would be the racism in USA. No one in urban centers or in the new generations is racist against black people. Go to the folks from the older generations and in the hinterlands and you will find that racism still exists somewhat. A similar trend is present in India. The new kids in urban centers don't care about caste. The old people in the villages and hinterlands? T…

You are completely wrong. I have lived my entire life in Delhi and I can tell you that there is rampant caste discrimination in urban India. I can cite many anecdotes but usually the denial of discrimination, which your comment does, is in itself an indicator of bias.

Re: The defiance of an 'untouchable' New York subway worker

#68

Post by pinewurst » Mon, Mar 26, 2018, 5:05 PM UTC

akgerber wrote: post #57

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any data to back that up? Really curious.

Conductors average $62k/year: https://bizfluent.com/info-12099370-salary-new-york-city-tra... It's a decent middle class job.

The benefits are really good too.

Re: The defiance of an 'untouchable' New York subway worker

#69

Post by Retric » Mon, Mar 26, 2018, 5:11 PM UTC

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #63

Retric wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet, they also lack the deep institutionalized racial slavery connection. Despite what people think slavery is actually more expensive than providing subsistence level pay. Due to the constant immigration influx and institutions like indentured servitude slavery was never important to New York's economy and by avoiding the slavery trap they actually had much stronger economic growth. NYC did see slavery from 1655 (fi…

There was slavery in New York in 1626 before the first auction. 1626-1827 is two centuries. You are also ignoring the "and discrimination" part of the statement that I made. New York had segregated neighborhoods until much later such as Stuyvesant Town which opened in 1947. NYC is also famous for its racially biased stop-and-frisk policy which lasted into the 21st century. Overall, it's pretty clear that my statement…

Ahh, but they did not have institutionalized racial slavery before the auctions. Simply having slaves is not enough, as US slavery was based on the European peasantry model which has no racial component and it was only after massive influx of African slaves that the connection became so strong.

Also, segregation spread from the South after the Civil War so there was a significant gap from the end of NY slavery to the start of Radical segregation which means it was not a continuous period.

Remember the Civil War ended in 1865 slavery absolutely ended in NY in 1827, but was almost non existent at that time long having been phased out.

Re: The defiance of an 'untouchable' New York subway worker

#70

Post by deskamess » Mon, Mar 26, 2018, 5:17 PM UTC

quantummkv wrote: post #17

A better way to allegorize the Indian caste system would be the racism in USA. No one in urban centers or in the new generations is racist against black people. Go to the folks from the older generations and in the hinterlands and you will find that racism still exists somewhat. A similar trend is present in India. The new kids in urban centers don't care about caste. The old people in the villages and hinterlands? T…

What? Caste and racism are different issues with a common goal (subjugation) and have considerable legs. I would vouch there is a visible resurgence in both. Narrowing to an India-US narrative, caste ideology is constantly imported into the US under the auspices of various Regional Groups. This is visible in the informal societal groups that are formed as well as some official groups that are formed. See the tail end of her interview [1] about Telugu Immigration Groups which are segmented along caste lines (and her request for membership).

I would not mind seeing an AMA from someone in a lower caste in India, someone from a lower caste in US, and someone from an upper caste in the US.

[1] https://scroll.in/video/862235/video-how-do-they-say-there-i...