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Toys 'R' Us Founder Charles Lazarus Dies at 94

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Re: Toys 'R' Us Founder Charles Lazarus Dies at 94

#61
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'd be curious to read more about how they messed it up so badly. They failed to embrace online, that was their downfall. They didn't take it seriously, opting to let someone else handle online for them, one of the largest players in the ecommerce space: Amazon. It goes back to the year 2000 when Amazon and Toys R Us signed a 10 year agreement that would make Toys R Us the exlusive vendor of toys on Amazon. So what…

Lesson there: don't outsource your sales.

Lesson 2: Your contract with Other Co will only last as long as it serves Other Co's interest. Always have a Plan B.

Re: Toys 'R' Us Founder Charles Lazarus Dies at 94

#62
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have confused cause with effect. Debt is cheaper than equity. The purchaser isn't diluting their equity returns as much so in theory they're getting a higher return. Interest is usually slightly higher than usual corporate lending so banks win. The profits should be more positive so the purchasee employees should be better off. So a LBO is a generally good idea other than its much more complicated and onl…

What does this mean: > Debt is cheaper than equity You have to pay interest on a debt, not so with equity. I am having a hard time relating your military and medical analogies to Bain/Vornado buying Toys-R-Us and then saddling it with $Bs in debt.

Its a finance thing. You will expect a greater rate of return from equity because its more risk than debt. For example a company is worth $10 $5 equity and $5 dollars debt. If company value goes to $20 the value of equity has tripled, but debt is still worth $5. However if company value goes to $5 well equity goes to 0, but debt is still worth $5. Since you are taking more risk with equity you need a greater rate of return on equity. So when equity is priced it needs to have a better return than debt for the added risk.

Re: Toys 'R' Us Founder Charles Lazarus Dies at 94

#63
post #14

What poor timing, oh well he had a great life and great accomplishments during his prime. > saddled with more than $5 billion in debt Wow, I haven't yet followed the story of Toys R Us but that is a huge amount of debt. I can't imagine what severe mismanagement happened at the company to allow this. Must have had some ex-government workers managing finances (/s)... > Since Lazarus stepped down as chief executive offi…

>I'd be curious to read more about how they messed it up so badly. They failed to embrace online, that was their downfall. They didn't take it seriously, opting to let someone else handle online for them, one of the largest players in the ecommerce space: Amazon. It goes back to the year 2000 when Amazon and Toys R Us signed a 10 year agreement that would make Toys R Us the exlusive vendor of toys on Amazon. So what…

This is the opposite of correct. Toys R Us core business is profitable and throws off 200 million in profits a year.

The reason they went bankrupt is that a private equity company bought them in an LBO and the debt load became unserviceable.

Re: Toys 'R' Us Founder Charles Lazarus Dies at 94

#64
post #14

What poor timing, oh well he had a great life and great accomplishments during his prime. > saddled with more than $5 billion in debt Wow, I haven't yet followed the story of Toys R Us but that is a huge amount of debt. I can't imagine what severe mismanagement happened at the company to allow this. Must have had some ex-government workers managing finances (/s)... > Since Lazarus stepped down as chief executive offi…

>I'd be curious to read more about how they messed it up so badly. They failed to embrace online, that was their downfall. They didn't take it seriously, opting to let someone else handle online for them, one of the largest players in the ecommerce space: Amazon. It goes back to the year 2000 when Amazon and Toys R Us signed a 10 year agreement that would make Toys R Us the exlusive vendor of toys on Amazon. So what…

> It goes back to the year 2000 when Amazon and Toys R Us signed a 10 year agreement that would make Toys R Us the exlusive vendor of toys on Amazon

If you go back a bit further, TRU had tried and failed a couple of years to do their own ecommerce. IIRC, both attempts were built on coldfusion, and both failed pretty hard. Not that it was necessarily solely CF's fault, but there were problems (probably a combination of technical and political) that prevented TRU from doing their own ecommerce. A deal with Amazon to handle your ecommerce was probably about the dumbest "short term thinking" move a company that size could make. I say it with the experience of having worked in ecommerce in 1998/99/2000 and saw behind the scenes of some pretty large operations. It wasn't pretty, but TRU could certainly have made things work on their own or outsourcing to a company like where I was working then, and it would have worked, without resorting to Amazon.

Re: Toys 'R' Us Founder Charles Lazarus Dies at 94

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was very little risk for the acquiring company or banks who loaned the money. Bain partnered with the real estate company Vornado Realty Trust in the Toys-R-Us deal. The bank loans were secured by Toys-R-Us assets that will be auctioned off, and Vornado will re-develop the land that Toys-R-Us stores sit on - everybody wins. Except for the 30,000 Toys-R-Us employees of course.

If you can buy a company with the sum of money you can raise by mortgaging the real estate it occupies, the implication is that the company is worth less than this real estate. Considering the kind of real estate Toys-R-Us shops occupied, this is not a good look for them, nor does it speak well for the employees' prospects had the LBO not happened.

The US used to have these businesses called drive-in movies. You could pack your car full of friends and snacks, then pick a spot in a grass field where you had a picnic while watching a movie. The value of the real-estate these businesses sat on far exceeded the return of operating the drive-in, so drive-ins no longer exists within an hour drive of most people. The US is poorer for no longer having these staples of 1950's and 1960's culture.

Similarly, Toys-r-Us was part of the US culture and has been destroyed for a few million in profit because it made economic sense. Hardware stores and book stores will also disappear from our culture, is this the society we want? People band together to support opera and symphonies, I would rather save drive-ins and hardware stores since they are more important in almost everyone's lives.

Re: Toys 'R' Us Founder Charles Lazarus Dies at 94

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can buy a company with the sum of money you can raise by mortgaging the real estate it occupies, the implication is that the company is worth less than this real estate. Considering the kind of real estate Toys-R-Us shops occupied, this is not a good look for them, nor does it speak well for the employees' prospects had the LBO not happened.

The US used to have these businesses called drive-in movies. You could pack your car full of friends and snacks, then pick a spot in a grass field where you had a picnic while watching a movie. The value of the real-estate these businesses sat on far exceeded the return of operating the drive-in, so drive-ins no longer exists within an hour drive of most people. The US is poorer for no longer having these staples of…

If the value of the real-estate was higher, why is it sitting unused?

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/abandoned-drive-in-mo...

Re: Toys 'R' Us Founder Charles Lazarus Dies at 94

#67
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'd be curious to read more about how they messed it up so badly. They failed to embrace online, that was their downfall. They didn't take it seriously, opting to let someone else handle online for them, one of the largest players in the ecommerce space: Amazon. It goes back to the year 2000 when Amazon and Toys R Us signed a 10 year agreement that would make Toys R Us the exlusive vendor of toys on Amazon. So what…

Lesson there: don't outsource your sales.

Especially don't outsource your sales if your core competency is sales. The bet Toys R Us was making here was, essentially, that this whole e-commerce thing would be a flash in the pan and they could go back to selling primarily through brick and mortar stores before the decade was through.

Re: Toys 'R' Us Founder Charles Lazarus Dies at 94

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can buy a company with the sum of money you can raise by mortgaging the real estate it occupies, the implication is that the company is worth less than this real estate. Considering the kind of real estate Toys-R-Us shops occupied, this is not a good look for them, nor does it speak well for the employees' prospects had the LBO not happened.

The US used to have these businesses called drive-in movies. You could pack your car full of friends and snacks, then pick a spot in a grass field where you had a picnic while watching a movie. The value of the real-estate these businesses sat on far exceeded the return of operating the drive-in, so drive-ins no longer exists within an hour drive of most people. The US is poorer for no longer having these staples of…

That's a rose-tinted view of things. There's plenty of dirt-cheap land just outside all but the biggest American towns, but no drive-ins on them. Seriously, without knowing you, chances are you and a couple of friends could pool your savings and buy a plot and setup a drive-in theatre. But chances are you'd fail. Land increasing in value is far from the only thing that changed that affected drive-ins. A car (and especially the sound options in one) is far from an ideal place to enjoy a movie from, streaming (or before that, renting a video or just watching on broadcast TV) on a large colour TV is much, much better. Modern, multiplex theatres provide a technically far, far superior experience to either. Attitudes to pre-marital sex have decreased the value of having somewhere to legitimately park in the dark for an extended period.

Many analogous things are true for toy stores and hardware stores etc. And people are banding together to support things that aren't commercially viable, the closest thing to hardware stores in this regard is probably hacker spaces.

And to answer your question directly, yes, I strongly prefer to live in a society where businesses are allowed to fail when they've run their course rather than being kept on life-support for vague past-romantic reasons.

Re: Toys 'R' Us Founder Charles Lazarus Dies at 94

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can buy a company with the sum of money you can raise by mortgaging the real estate it occupies, the implication is that the company is worth less than this real estate. Considering the kind of real estate Toys-R-Us shops occupied, this is not a good look for them, nor does it speak well for the employees' prospects had the LBO not happened.

The US used to have these businesses called drive-in movies. You could pack your car full of friends and snacks, then pick a spot in a grass field where you had a picnic while watching a movie. The value of the real-estate these businesses sat on far exceeded the return of operating the drive-in, so drive-ins no longer exists within an hour drive of most people. The US is poorer for no longer having these staples of…

> The US is poorer for no longer having these staples of 1950's and 1960's culture.

Veering a bit off topic, but they're coming back in some locales. Multiple have opened in my area.

Re: Toys 'R' Us Founder Charles Lazarus Dies at 94

#70
I still don't think online will take off soon as a popular way to buy for toys. There is a reason why almost all toys come semi demo-able with buttons you can push and open-ish boxes. Amazon is apparently behind in apparel for a similar reason, you can't try anything on!
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