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Kerbal Space Program Extension Now Available

kerbalspaceprogram.com

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Re: Kerbal Space Program Extension Now Available

#61

Post by Bartweiss »

hoorayimhelping wrote: post #36
z3t4 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The career mode sucks. Feels too much like work. Use the free mode and build crazy rockets and jet planes. And have some fun. Going to other planets and orbital maneuvers are really end game stuff, which you can learn after getting tired of blowing things up.

I always tells noobs to skip career mode and do science mode. You don't have to manage money or kerbal lives, but you still get a sense of progression and value as you unlock new parts. You still have a purpose and a reason to go do things (i.e. collecting science), but it's much less complex and lets you focus on just having fun and exploring.

I think a lot of people end up sort of mislead by the different modes - in so many games, "free play" mode is for when you've exhausted the campaign, learned the mechanics, and just want to mess around with all options unlocked. For KSP, the campaign makes some effort at a tutorial via the mission sequence, but makes "learning to function" much harder than free play.

I like the science mode suggestion; gating off complex parts lowers the burden of choice, but without the financial pressure it's just "try this and learn to use it" rather than a race to unlock more powerful gear.

Re: Kerbal Space Program Extension Now Available

#62

Post by Bartweiss »

thomasz wrote: post #15
rocky1138 wrote: post #10

I had heard the original team that built this game quit due to poor working conditions. Is that true? If so, who built this expansion and have the working conditions improved?

https://www.destructoid.com/former-kerbal-space-program-deve... They won't get a dime from me ever. For anything.

For whatever it's worth, 2K did buy the thing from Squad. Too late for most of the original devs, but it might change things. On the other hand, they're keeping Squad as the developer, which doesn't feel so good...

Re: Kerbal Space Program Extension Now Available

#63

Post by sandworm101 »

B1FF_PSUVM wrote: post #49
sandworm101 wrote: post #29

Been playing since first linux biulds. Love the game. Hate the developer. Too much politics. Too many mind games. Too many unaddressed bugs. Would jump at any similar game, something more based on physics, if run by anyone else.

Do you know of Orbiter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbiter_(simulator) Orbiter vs Kerbal, etc.: http://www.thespacereview.com/article/3091/1 (Via XKCD, note title text: https://xkcd.com/1244/ - nice slingshots too )

Orbiter imho is more about flying than operating a space program. Flying is nice, but I am much more a fan of coordinating a mission between multiple craft.

I can live with the cartoon nature, but I do not appreciate "features" as window dressing for poor coding. The way KSP handles memory (loads everything 24/7) is ridiculous and necessitates many silly compromises. And don't get me started on how they handle "heat" and aerodynamics.

Re: Kerbal Space Program Extension Now Available

#64

Post by DonHopkins »

thomasz wrote: post #15
rocky1138 wrote: post #10

I had heard the original team that built this game quit due to poor working conditions. Is that true? If so, who built this expansion and have the working conditions improved?

https://www.destructoid.com/former-kerbal-space-program-deve... They won't get a dime from me ever. For anything.

I was just thinking of buying it, and now I have changed my mind. Back to Factorio for me!!!

Re: Kerbal Space Program Extension Now Available

#65

Post by louithethrid »

ada1981 wrote: post #37
koolba wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see any ethics in the subject at all. If that's how much they were being paid then they're likely terrible negotiators but that doesn't make any part of the contract unethical. If they were promised equity, a bonus, or some other extra compensation that was not subsequently delivered then not paying that out would be unethical. But agreeing to a lowball amount and then complaining about it being a lowball amo…

Not sure why the downvotes..

Yeah, i have a family who is bound to my families stone-quary since 5 generations by debt-contract, i can not fathom where the problem is here.

Re: Kerbal Space Program Extension Now Available

#66

Post by reificator »

DonHopkins wrote: post #64
thomasz wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.destructoid.com/former-kerbal-space-program-deve... They won't get a dime from me ever. For anything.

I was just thinking of buying it, and now I have changed my mind. Back to Factorio for me!!!

I should get back to Factorio, but Cities Skylines has taken over my brain-game timeslot lately.

It's really amazing to me how fun they both are, given that they're just exercises in logistics.

Cities Skylines is about managing traffic flow, basically every other mechanic stems from that in some way or another. Not a surprise given the developers' previous games were the Cities In Motion series.

Factorio is about efficient transport of materials into machines that assemble goods, and about building up abstractions so you are constantly solving new types of problems with the resources you've automated already.

Both of them have helped me to better understand concurrency, throughput, and optimization. And playing Factorio with friends has helped me stretch my project management muscles. By halfway through the game I had to make a Trello board just to keep track of what needed to be done and where the bottlenecks were.

If you're in the mood for a thinking game I highly recommend both of them.

Re: Kerbal Space Program Extension Now Available

#67

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

thomasz wrote: post #26
koolba wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Terribly poor negotiation tactics on their part, but still quite shitty of the owners not to give them a massive bonus after the huge success of the game. If the game failed to gain traction would we be asking the devs to give a refund of their salaries? > Given those ethics, I wouldn't believe a new team got better conditions without solid proof. There’s nothing unethical with not sharing the bounties of success w…

It's selfish on an unfathomable level. And on top of that, it is self defeating. This is a stunt that you can only pull of once. Who in their right mind would ever want to work for, or even with , such horrible people ever again? How many who would've gladly paid them, will now pirate without the slightest remorse? I'm quite sure this move did cost them a lot of money in the long run.

>Who in their right mind would ever want to work for, or even with, such horrible people ever again

See: Pretty much everything Donald Trump has ever been accused of doing as a business man before his presidential run, and the history of Microsoft.

Re: Kerbal Space Program Extension Now Available

#68

Post by fancyfacebook »

siddboots wrote: post #24
koolba wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Terribly poor negotiation tactics on their part, but still quite shitty of the owners not to give them a massive bonus after the huge success of the game. If the game failed to gain traction would we be asking the devs to give a refund of their salaries? > Given those ethics, I wouldn't believe a new team got better conditions without solid proof. There’s nothing unethical with not sharing the bounties of success w…

Without knowing the details, the fact that multiple core developers quit seems to be some evidence that they were treated unethically. That's not something that happens in normal conditions.

Multiple "core" developers left Uber in waves in the past few years, I wouldn't say that means there is "some evidence" they were treated unethically.

In fact it's evidence of the exact opposite.

Re: Kerbal Space Program Extension Now Available

#69

Post by Armisael16 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #25
remarkEon wrote: post #16

I’ve spent a lot of time playing KSP. This game has an incredibly steep learning curve. The best thing they could do is build a player autopilot that lets them get to orbit with basic rocket builds. There’s a ton of hardcore players (like me) who do things like write kOS scripts to run rockets to the mun and beyond. But that kind of thing is lost on the person who first downloads this game. If the devs are reading th…

I disagree. Half of the value of this game comes from the fact it forces you to learn a few things about real physics along the way. Beginnings ain't hard. You can easily get to orbit manually, and you can even eyeball your way to the Mün. That said, something like the per-stage ∆v display from KER (a mod) should IMO be stock, both during construction and in-flight - without that one piece of information, any trip pa…

KER gets latitude when it screws up, because it's a mod. The game itself needs to be damn-near perfect - and it can't be, because some rocket configurations are inherently impossibly to calculate total dv for (eg, a lunar-orbit rendezvous mission a la Apollo).

I totally agree about not adding the autopilot. Mechjeb exists for those people.

Re: Kerbal Space Program Extension Now Available

#70

Post by squarefoot »

fancyfacebook wrote: post #68
siddboots wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without knowing the details, the fact that multiple core developers quit seems to be some evidence that they were treated unethically. That's not something that happens in normal conditions.

Multiple "core" developers left Uber in waves in the past few years, I wouldn't say that means there is "some evidence" they were treated unethically. In fact it's evidence of the exact opposite.

Timing is vital in these contexts. I've worked at a job in a team of 3 under terrible conditions (terrible from a "western" perspective of course, nobody was whipping or pointing guns at us, but you get the point). Complaining with management -the worst bunch of incompetent idiots I ever encountered in my life- was 100% ineffective so that after just a few months one of my colleagues left, then a bit later I left. The company suddenly panicked realizing how the project was likely going to tank in a spectacular way and promptly turned their tactics literally burying the only left member with money, benefits and much better working conditions so that he kept the job for years. Same company, same project, same team, but asking to 2 different people could have yielded very opposite opinions.
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