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New Giant Viruses Further Blur the Definition of Life

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Re: New Giant Viruses Further Blur the Definition of Life

#61
I bet every biology student has struggled with the introductory "what is life" chapter, full of conflicting definitions.

It is so difficult to define life because there is nothing to be defined. There are complex stuff and simple stuff. We tend to call things that exhibit a certain degree of complexity "alive", but that's just a word.

Can't remember who wrote the perfect definition of Biology: "The study of complex things". There's a great deal of wisdom in that.

Re: New Giant Viruses Further Blur the Definition of Life

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Words are only useful insofar as they point to groups of entities that the speaker and listener agree are being pointed to. So, we should ask "what is the most useful definition of life?" It's a short word, so it's valuable real-estate. What should the definition of life be? It's easy to get wrapped up into discussions about words, but don't forget that the things they point to is what's really interesting.

Thats "The Categories Were Made For Man, Not Man For The Categories". Sb trying to push sb else to use a definition meets the second part of the sentence.

>Sb trying to push sb else to use a definition meets the second part of the sentence.

This is post-modernism in thin disguise.

Certain categorizations can be more valuable (practical, useful, just, etc) than others, in which case it's reasonable to rally for their use over other, less valueable, categorizations.

Re: New Giant Viruses Further Blur the Definition of Life

#63

I bet every biology student has struggled with the introductory "what is life" chapter, full of conflicting definitions. It is so difficult to define life because there is nothing to be defined. There are complex stuff and simple stuff. We tend to call things that exhibit a certain degree of complexity "alive", but that's just a word. Can't remember who wrote the perfect definition of Biology: "The study of complex t…

Yes, I logged in to say the same. There can be mutliple definitions of life, each useful for different purposes.

It is like those people trying to figure out how many types of cells there are in the human body. There is no "right" or "true" answer, only useful ones. All these categories are artificial.

Re: New Giant Viruses Further Blur the Definition of Life

#64

I bet every biology student has struggled with the introductory "what is life" chapter, full of conflicting definitions. It is so difficult to define life because there is nothing to be defined. There are complex stuff and simple stuff. We tend to call things that exhibit a certain degree of complexity "alive", but that's just a word. Can't remember who wrote the perfect definition of Biology: "The study of complex t…

> Can't remember who wrote the perfect definition of Biology: "The study of complex things". There's a great deal of wisdom in that.

Human society is complex, but it would not normally be considered biology.

Re: New Giant Viruses Further Blur the Definition of Life

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats "The Categories Were Made For Man, Not Man For The Categories". Sb trying to push sb else to use a definition meets the second part of the sentence.

>Sb trying to push sb else to use a definition meets the second part of the sentence. This is post-modernism in thin disguise. Certain categorizations can be more valuable (practical, useful, just, etc) than others, in which case it's reasonable to rally for their use over other, less valueable, categorizations.

I don't know about the post-modernism thingy.

To the second part: To one practical is to the other unpractical. To one just is to another unjust.

To push certain categories over others just says to me you want them to be in your frame(practical, useful for you I guess?).

And to not give an argument on the usefulness is to hide intention. But I'm not too firm on that yet.

Re: New Giant Viruses Further Blur the Definition of Life

#66
Trying to define "life" is one of the central questions of the philosophy of biology. And the positions one takes in the philosophy of biology are inevitably going to be influenced by one's metaphysical positions regarding the problem of universals. A nominalist, a Aristotelian realist, a Platonist (etc.), are all going to approach the question "what is life?" differently.

Sometimes when people discuss this topic, they assume a certain approach to metaphysics without making that assumption explicit (indeed, they may not be aware that there are genuine alternatives to their personal metaphysical positions.)

Re: New Giant Viruses Further Blur the Definition of Life

#67
post #64

I bet every biology student has struggled with the introductory "what is life" chapter, full of conflicting definitions. It is so difficult to define life because there is nothing to be defined. There are complex stuff and simple stuff. We tend to call things that exhibit a certain degree of complexity "alive", but that's just a word. Can't remember who wrote the perfect definition of Biology: "The study of complex t…

> Can't remember who wrote the perfect definition of Biology: "The study of complex things". There's a great deal of wisdom in that. Human society is complex, but it would not normally be considered biology.

Society isn't one thing, so perhaps a better definition would be "Biology is the study of a complex thing?" Regardless, pedantry.

Re: New Giant Viruses Further Blur the Definition of Life

#68
post #67
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can't remember who wrote the perfect definition of Biology: "The study of complex things". There's a great deal of wisdom in that. Human society is complex, but it would not normally be considered biology.

Society isn't one thing, so perhaps a better definition would be "Biology is the study of a complex thing?" Regardless, pedantry.

To continue the pedantry - what makes society not one thing, but a human one thing? That seems like a matter of perspective.

Re: New Giant Viruses Further Blur the Definition of Life

#69
post #64

I bet every biology student has struggled with the introductory "what is life" chapter, full of conflicting definitions. It is so difficult to define life because there is nothing to be defined. There are complex stuff and simple stuff. We tend to call things that exhibit a certain degree of complexity "alive", but that's just a word. Can't remember who wrote the perfect definition of Biology: "The study of complex t…

> Can't remember who wrote the perfect definition of Biology: "The study of complex things". There's a great deal of wisdom in that. Human society is complex, but it would not normally be considered biology.

I bet a super-intelligent alien ethologist would interpret our society as a living thing.

I'm almost sure there are anthropologists who share the same view :)

The study of multi-organism systems: populations, ecosystems and the like is commonly associated with Biology, or a branch (Ecology). They will go as far as "biosphere", in an attempt to study the entire planet.

Re: New Giant Viruses Further Blur the Definition of Life

#70
post #67
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can't remember who wrote the perfect definition of Biology: "The study of complex things". There's a great deal of wisdom in that. Human society is complex, but it would not normally be considered biology.

Society isn't one thing, so perhaps a better definition would be "Biology is the study of a complex thing?" Regardless, pedantry.

Humans are billions of things. One human is composed of billions of different organisms.
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