Live data from Hacker News

UberCab to disrupt the Taxi/Limo business

techcrunch.com

61–70 of 109 posts

Re: UberCab to disrupt the Taxi/Limo business

#61
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it a win for consumers to let taxi fare rates float? Taxis are very cheap (many reasonable drives inside the Chicago Loop are within 100% of what it would cost to take the CTA). Floating rates would almost certainly rise . If a regulatory change harms consumers , what's the point of deregulating? San Francisco might benefit from deregulation, because there are political problems and structural breakages in the…

Allowing fares to float while maintaining the current artificially restricted supply will cause prices to rise. Allowing increased competition will almost certainly lower costs. Taxi revenues are currently $91k/year in NYC. Breakdown: $18k medallion, $50k labor, the rest is maintenance/insurance. If labor costs were reduced to $35k/year due to competition (taxi driving isn't exactly high skill labor) and medallion co…

So, just so I follow, your proposal is to impoverish cabbies and drive the skill level of the average driver down as low as it can go while increasing the number of vehicles on the streets in a city where it already takes an hour to go a mile?

May that you never be in charge of taxi service.

Re: UberCab to disrupt the Taxi/Limo business

#62
post #13
post #8

Sound like a nice idea, but unfortunately taxis are a regulated industry in most major cities (e.g. NYC, Boston, Chicago). The difference between a taxi and non-taxi are usually that a taxi license or medallion is required in order to legally stop for somebody hailing down a cab on a street. If this service became at all popular, it is very likely that cities would immediately include "mobile hailing" as also requiri…

Medallions are a conspiracy against the public, especially the poor and minorities, who both are disproportionately refused cab service and prevented from lawfully pursuing a value-creating occupation in their communities which requires only modest capital and no special training. See also hairdressing regulations and a host of others. I could be persuaded there exists an optimum amount of regulation for compensated…

The limited supply of taxi medallions is a good thing otherwise city streets would be clogged with taxis even more so than now.

Re: UberCab to disrupt the Taxi/Limo business

#63
post #26
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree. The policies behind medallions may be stupid and unfair, but their existence provides a mechanism of accountability (you can lose them, and they're hellaciously expensive) that doesn't exist with iPhone dispatch. It doesn't surprise you that cab drivers in Chicago basically never drive you to random destinations, or change fares midway through the ride? The goodness of cab driver hearts isn't what's prevent…

I do more of my traveling from airport to suburbs than inside the city, so I get to use a car service. It is pretty simple: I call American Taxi (by way of Bangalore), they send me an Eastern European immigrant with a car, and he whisks me home for the published flat fee. Their incentive to not screw me is that they value my continued custom (and chargebacks are a beast). His incentive to not screw me is that he valu…

Putting it on iphone allows UberCab to collect a profile for all drivers and customers and make that profile value (ratings) publicly available for future riders and clients. Transparency is good but recorded transparency made publicaly available for future decisions becomes powerful.

Re: UberCab to disrupt the Taxi/Limo business

#64
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It doesn't surprise you that cab drivers in Chicago basically never drive you to random destinations, or change fares midway through the ride? The goodness of cab driver hearts isn't what's preventing it. A voluntary medallion scheme would prevent that; the city government could issue medallions to those who fitted whatever standards it chose to lay down. And customers would be free to choose to use a medallioned o…

Don't get me wrong; the city medallion systems are evil. I'm just saying they're a necessary evil. If we could replace them with something sane, I'm onboard!

You're quick to dismiss all prospects for a mobile-device-assisted reputation system based on v1; assume instead that it iterates a number of times and eventually chiefly helps the dispatchers identify bad actors, rather than customers.

With digital cameras and other low-cost person and location tracking technologies, it's not easy for drivers to take riders on any ride other than that which was contracted, nor for providers with bad reputations to borrow the identities of others. Branded quoted dispatching has returns to scale -- perhaps it's even a natural monopoly -- and incentives for self-policing. So bad actors can't just hop to another of multiple dispatchers and get the same amount of business.

Floating rates and open entry can restore service to areas that regulated rates sometimes cause to be unserved -- because they're comparatively hard to get to or dangerous, and there's plenty of business elsewhere.

And finally, for all the supposed protections provided by regulation, a city with strict regulations will also have a bunch of gypsy and counterfeit cabs -- and in SF, if local media reports here are to be believed, many of these are indistinguishable from the 'real' thing, even by most police/enforcers. You get in one -- and you get indistinguishable service as from other cabs, because the operators want to be cabbies, not robbers. And yet -- iPhone dispatching could give out a 1-time single-word-password more secure than any cab 'dress'. So if this were really something to be scared of, a branded iPhone dispatcher can provide more assuarance than the city medallion authority.

There is a valid concern at the heart of taxi licensing -- but it long ago grew into primarily a cartel, using that original justification to enrich incumbents, doing more damage than benefit. And, the restricted medaliion program is a solution from another era; let us try to get the same benefits with new tools, and see how it works.

Re: UberCab to disrupt the Taxi/Limo business

#65
post #57
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say people wouldn't leave reviews, I said they wouldn't have the same social incentive to do so as with other things that get reviewed. Other incentives (revenge) of course still exist, but the result is probably a heavy bias towards negative reviews, which can still make the system pretty unusable. And this isn't necessarily the eBay problem, if you have to provide a driver's license or some other set of cr…

Nope: (a) There will be more than one of these dispatching services, so you'll just hop. (b) There's an inherent TOCTTOU problem, since they're only checking licenses when you sign up, not every time you pick up a fare. You'll just "rent" someone else's license; there are presumably tens of thousands of people who don't care what their cab dispatch reputation is.

Being able to switch services or rent someone else's credentials are different problems than being able to cheaply create a new positive profile on a given service. Switching doesn't help you much if there's one dominant dispatch service that everyone uses, and renting someone else's credentials drives up the price of scamming the system.

This is kind of a silly argument, though, because my main point was actually agreement that a taxi review system would probably be horribly broken. I just don't think it would necessarily be broken in the exact same way that eBay's is.

Re: UberCab to disrupt the Taxi/Limo business

#66
post #63
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do more of my traveling from airport to suburbs than inside the city, so I get to use a car service. It is pretty simple: I call American Taxi (by way of Bangalore), they send me an Eastern European immigrant with a car, and he whisks me home for the published flat fee. Their incentive to not screw me is that they value my continued custom (and chargebacks are a beast). His incentive to not screw me is that he valu…

Putting it on iphone allows UberCab to collect a profile for all drivers and customers and make that profile value (ratings) publicly available for future riders and clients. Transparency is good but recorded transparency made publicaly available for future decisions becomes powerful.

This drastically idealizes UberCab profiles. That's easy to do now when UberCab is largely an abstraction, and the sole provider. It gets a lot shadier when UberCab is one of 10 companies doing this, when the market segments along lots of other attributes (high-end and low-end providers &c), and when it starts to become worth it to game profiles.

Re: UberCab to disrupt the Taxi/Limo business

#67
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allowing fares to float while maintaining the current artificially restricted supply will cause prices to rise. Allowing increased competition will almost certainly lower costs. Taxi revenues are currently $91k/year in NYC. Breakdown: $18k medallion, $50k labor, the rest is maintenance/insurance. If labor costs were reduced to $35k/year due to competition (taxi driving isn't exactly high skill labor) and medallion co…

So, just so I follow, your proposal is to impoverish cabbies and drive the skill level of the average driver down as low as it can go while increasing the number of vehicles on the streets in a city where it already takes an hour to go a mile? May that you never be in charge of taxi service.

Yes, my proposal is to reduce the wages of current cabbies, increase the wages of future cabbies (the people currently making $25k/year, or perhaps who are unemployed, who would take jobs as cabbies at $35k/year) and lower the cost of taxis to consumers.

As for the number of vehicles, that's an issue not primarily caused by cabbies. A congestion charge (levied on cabbies and drivers alike) and eliminating free parking seems like a solution to that - it works pretty well in London.

Re: UberCab to disrupt the Taxi/Limo business

#68
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allowing fares to float while maintaining the current artificially restricted supply will cause prices to rise. Allowing increased competition will almost certainly lower costs. Taxi revenues are currently $91k/year in NYC. Breakdown: $18k medallion, $50k labor, the rest is maintenance/insurance. If labor costs were reduced to $35k/year due to competition (taxi driving isn't exactly high skill labor) and medallion co…

So, just so I follow, your proposal is to impoverish cabbies and drive the skill level of the average driver down as low as it can go while increasing the number of vehicles on the streets in a city where it already takes an hour to go a mile? May that you never be in charge of taxi service.

Having read 'yummyfajitas closely for awhile now, can I take the liberty of predicting that he will acknowledge the NYC congestion problem, but suggest that we should be addressing it with a market-based solution that targets it directly, instead of as a side effect of regulations?

I agree with you not him, because I don't trust the process that will generate the market-based solution, and I think the medallion system actually pretty much works in Chicago and NYC. But that doesn't make the argument much more productive.

Re: UberCab to disrupt the Taxi/Limo business

#69
The first time an UberCab driver gets into a wreck without insurance or licensing should be interesting. I can see this being very useful for legitimate car services, but they need to do serious due diligence to make sure their drivers are legitimate. Mike's dream of anyone becoming an UberCab driver would be a legal nightmare.

Re: UberCab to disrupt the Taxi/Limo business

#70
post #58
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, airport fares aren't that great and they are getting worse for drivers (fee changes and cops on 101). But for the drivers who don't want to work much it's fun to hang out there. The problem with cabs in SF isn't SFO, it's simply there aren't enough cabs on Thursday to Saturday nights.

Last time I had this discussion with a cab driver in SF, he explained that there's some issue with the way cabs are dispatched in SF that pulls drivers to SFO, and that SFO is overserved at the expense of the city. I wish I could remember the details. It wasn't "cabs are lazy".

Ugh, don't get me started on SF cabbies. They are not only licensed but regulated by price. They also pretend to not know where anything is and will drive around to find your destination, hiking cab fares up accordingly. And, because you may not know the lay of the land (and can't understand their likely intentionally-thick foreign accents), you can't exactly tell them where to go. I had one that claimed to not know the best way to Coit Tower from the Ferry Building, so _he asked me_. Seriously.

It's a big rip-off and I am thankful whenever I visit SF to have a zipcard. Now I only pay BART to get me from SFO to (near) our vacation rental. If ubercab can provide fares without that runaround, I'm all for it.

Post reply on HN