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How much money do people need to be happy?

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Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#61
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect there is another level above that at financial independence, where you have enough wealth that you don't have to work. Where you can lose the fear of losing your job, or go off and work on what you want even if it doesn't make much or any money.

There might be a fine line there; humans need a sense of purpose, and for many people, purpose is tied up in our job. If you no longer have to work, and you choose not to work because your current job isn't ideal, it can be hard to get the motivation to search for a new job. At the same time, without work, it can be hard to find purpose. So you might be stuck in a situation where you aren't working and struggling to…

But just because you don't have to work doesn't mean you can't work.

If you have financial independence, you have the choice to work or not, and if you do work, to do whatever work you find most meaningful.

Without financial independence, you have no choice but to work, and for the vast majority of people without financial independence there isn't much choice of what kind of work to do either.

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#62
post #44

tl;dr - A new study finds that $105,000 is the income level at which people no longer feel happier earning more money. This updates the previous number, $75,000, from a 2010 study. Personally, I’m deeply skeptical of any psychology or sociology research that relies on magic numbers like “105,000”. As far as I can tell, the study doesn’t even account for cost of living.

Agreed, $105k in NYC is different than $105k in Memphis

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#63
post #51
post #4

Is this net income (after taxes, and possibly after 401k [or equivalent] savings)? I would say that having no debt, or at least having manageable debt, along with knowing you are saving enough for retirement, and making enough that you don't have to second-guess if you can afford every purchase you make, is the real cutoff. For example, if you don't have mortgage debt then you are probably renting. So I consider mort…

Absolutely. Money saves time and stress. You can pay people to do other things for you. You can afford to take a vacation. You can also probably afford a temporary job loss (unless you are mortgaged to the hilt). You can afford to start a startup in some cases. Still I am pretty sure you can find people who make $250k that are miserable, possibly because of the working conditions.

On the other hand, you might have a stressful job to actually generate that $200k, and you might have to live somewhere like SF with very high cost of living, and your commute might be stressful, etc.

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#64

1,000,000 dollars, source https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKKHSAE1gIs

My number was 2.25m out of college, it's more like 6-8 now. Fortunately, I'll likely never get there so my continually failing startup streak will continue in perpetuity!

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#65

I've never understood the absolute premise of: money can't buy happiness. It very obviously can. I'm happy when I'm not living in a ditch. When I'm warm in Winter. When I have food and I'm not afraid of starving to death. When I can afford to pay my rent or mortgage. And those are the primitives. I'm extremely happy when I can spend a month at the beach (say I live in the mountains or midwest), or hop on a plane and…

> I'm happy when I'm not living in a ditch. When I'm warm in Winter. When I have food and I'm not afraid of starving to death. When I can afford to pay my rent or mortgage.

Yeah, but I'm even happier when that applies to others, too. I can't even imagine how grand life would be if it applied to every last person on the planet.

But how does money as such figure into that? The value of my money doesn't just depend on the amount of money I have, but also on the amount of money others don't have. If everybody had a billion dollars, it would be the exact same situation than if everybody had one dollar. That's why the whole money obsession seems a bit silly, to put it mildly.

> I'd be very happy spending my life trying to figure out how to benefit humanity with the $127 billion Bezos is sitting on.

If you totally ignore the accumulation part of it, and you pretend it's money that was magically "made" where there was no money, and then added as some kind of gift to the economy, then such mental gymnastics can be fun. I'm with Nietzsche though, the need for power which is implied in the need for money is based on inability, and by the same token, the lack of need for it based on ability and knowledge of self.

You can't easily be happy when you're hungry or otherwise suffering, true. But I'd say I mostly need health and agency, and even then my main happiness comes from the universe existing. If I got bored with my toys, I could just stare at clouds or the skin of my hand or a billion other things and be happy, at the very least content. Do people even know how cool and pretty a rain drop is? How many there are when it rains? And that's even before animals and people. I know this sounds like advice from a hippie calendar, but it's the best way I can describe how I actually do live my life "on the inside". Heather B. also put it well: "it's the simple things that please me" :)

Money is just a tool, like being able to measure weight or distances. It's that we pretend that doing useful things well is proportional to the amount of money someone "makes", and in turn that gives people the idea that just having come by money in any way at all bestows usefulness and importance on them. But they can't even convince themselves, and not me either. It's orthogonal. You need food, shelter, medicine, rights and respect, maybe books and a few other things, but nothing fancy, no jet planes; maybe that's not enough for everybody to be happy, but it'd be enough for a lot of people I dare say, because it might be enough for me. But in so far any of those are tangled up with money, which is just a symbol, a placeholder, that's just us being confused and kinda lame, but says nothing about money doing anything per se.

> This planet has - or rather had - a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movement of small green pieces of paper, which was odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.

-- Douglas Adams

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#66
post #13
post #4

Is this net income (after taxes, and possibly after 401k [or equivalent] savings)? I would say that having no debt, or at least having manageable debt, along with knowing you are saving enough for retirement, and making enough that you don't have to second-guess if you can afford every purchase you make, is the real cutoff. For example, if you don't have mortgage debt then you are probably renting. So I consider mort…

I can't agree more. My ultimate financial goal is to have enough money to pay other people to do all the things I hate for me.

What do you hate and why can't you automate it?

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#67
post #66
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't agree more. My ultimate financial goal is to have enough money to pay other people to do all the things I hate for me.

What do you hate and why can't you automate it?

Folding laundry.

Robots are miserably bad at this, so far.

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like a cultural thing, though - many Western cultures wrap up personal identity in job description, but there's nothing biological to stop people from just laying out a purpose for themselves and pursuing it. There are plenty of financial reasons, but isn't that what we're talking about? If you have enough money that you don't have to work for the rest of your life, you probably have enough money that you…

>That seems like a cultural thing, though - there's nothing biological to stop people from laying out a purpose for themselves and pursuing it. Purpose without existential risk of failure is not usually perceived as genuine. If you have enough money and only put a fraction of it to use, you might create things, but you're never really risking anything. I'd wager more people join the military for purpose than the loca…

> Purpose without existential risk of failure is not usually perceived as genuine.

Says who? That may be associated with lutheran ethics of hard work, but doesn't look like an universal nor an essential requirement. Was Mother Theresa devoid of purpose because there's no way she could fail at taking care of people?

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#70
Anyone else find that even as they do their best to be frugal, expenses pile up as fast as your paycheck does?

In my case, as soon as I started making decent money, I got a hearing and glasses (I didn't have them before), started taking physiotherapy to fix my shoulders, going to the dentist, changing the oil in my car on schedule, buying shoes as they wore out instead of pushing them until they gave me hip and knee problems, etc... I wouldn't say I was "unhappy" about any of those things before I could afford them, but I simply didn't spend money on them.

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