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The House That Spied on Me

gizmodo.com

61–70 of 73 posts

Re: The House That Spied on Me

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like Android.

Can you not do this on Android now? IIRC it offers you the option to skip.

Vanilla Android does not require any accounts, and Google Play Services allow to skip account setup. However, it could be that some vendors have mandatory account setup in their crapware.

Re: The House That Spied on Me

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is why both android and ios are NOT the mobile os of the future. I too would like a more open OS for mobiles, but you have to realize that the majority of users doesn't care about this. They are unconcerned about most privacy issues, don't need to ever tinker at a low level with their devices, and they are the ones ultimately deciding on what the future will be. What matters is the UI, and that the various fea…

Most people don't realize how bad all sorts of things in their life are. (Dietary dangers, sedentary lifestyle, financial irresponsibilities, etc) That doesn't make them less bad, or less concerning overall. If you think things in the world should only change because of popular opinion & sales, then things like emancipation, environmental protection, worker protection, consumer protection laws, and other such things…

> Most people don't realize how bad all sorts of things in their life are.

I'd say that most people are regularly bombarded by all these issues in the medias. If they still don't realize, then this is because they actively filter them out.

> If you think things in the world should only change because of popular opinion & sales, then things like emancipation, environmental protection, worker protection, consumer protection laws, and other such things would never have happened.

I never claimed that things shouldn't change, only that I very much doubt they will. It's on the opponents to Google/Apple, to convince the majority that there are real issues and that measures should be taken. That's how democracy works, right? And I don't see that happening in the near future. Privacy? We have nothing to hide. Low-level customizability? We only need something that just works. They are the popular answers on these issues that need to be countered.

Re: The House That Spied on Me

#63
post #59

This simple horrifies me. Why would you do this to yourself and your family? I don't see myself ever getting anything smart, and if I can't avoid it there is no way it touches my internet connection!

Do you have a modern phone in your pocket?

Re: The House That Spied on Me

#64
post #7
post #2

This was brilliant and disturbing. The legal implications are crazy---even if the owner of the house has agreed to the EULAs of all the devices, their visitors have not. Is their a legal obligation to notify visitors that data about them is being generated, collected, snooped through, and potentially sold? If people could be made more informed of what their devices are saying (and to whom) perhaps they'd be more relu…

> If people could be made more informed I'd really really really like to see some AR glasses that would somehow visualize all sorts of invisible things: radio traffic (incl. special indication of weak encryption and non-encrypted communications), ultrasound and infrared tags, location of detectable microphones and cameras - all sorts of things like this, whatever can be detected. Like, look at the smart TV and be awa…

An average smartphone contains sensors that can detect any emissions of in wifi and infrared, as well as inaudible audio. While only a portion of what you describe, it's not difficult to imagine an app that could recognize and warn of those things, perhaps even recognize specific devices in the room by their protocols.

Re: The House That Spied on Me

#65
Once again, one of the biggest underlying problems is "why" - or more technically, what is the use case behind ? This was always a problem back when it was merely "home automation" but as we started this "IoT" craze things only got worse.

I laugh at the ancedote in the article about voice control just behind frustrating and resorting to using the physical buttons.

No one has ever explained why I'd want to remotely control my lights. Or why I would remotely turn on my coffee maker, after I have to physically touch it to prepare it before-hand anyway.

Some amount of this tech is useful when it goes unnoticed and solves real problems. For example, my outside lights turn on dimly at sunset and turn off at midnight, unless there's motion or my garage door is open, then they go to 100%. If no inside lights are already on, the front hall and a couple other lights turn on as it gets dark. This means we never come home to a dark house, but also if we're already home, we aren't having lights automatically changing on us.

I can control many things from my phone, but it's pointless. There's a button in the entrance to the kitchen that turns on several lights (that otherwise require using switches in four separate locations), another that makes them all dim, and another for off. If we leave them on, they turn off automatically by 3am.

So much of these IoT products do not solve useful problems, do not blend seamlessly into your life, and do not even work well in the first place.

Re: The House That Spied on Me

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people don't realize how bad all sorts of things in their life are. (Dietary dangers, sedentary lifestyle, financial irresponsibilities, etc) That doesn't make them less bad, or less concerning overall. If you think things in the world should only change because of popular opinion & sales, then things like emancipation, environmental protection, worker protection, consumer protection laws, and other such things…

> Most people don't realize how bad all sorts of things in their life are. I'd say that most people are regularly bombarded by all these issues in the medias. If they still don't realize, then this is because they actively filter them out. > If you think things in the world should only change because of popular opinion & sales, then things like emancipation, environmental protection, worker protection, consumer prote…

I don't think it's only up the market competitors to Google/Apple.

The market doesn't necessarily select against negative side effects, like privacy or the environment. Shifts in these need to happen outside the market. Things like legislative protection about rights, environment, and privacy are going to come from minority demands to claim those rights, not from hoping for a majority market pressure against conveniences that sell well.

Re: The House That Spied on Me

#67
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When obama said we need a more 21st century efficient power grid, i thought that sounds great. i thought that meant better equipment and lines that doesnt waste as much electricity, nope. it meant 'smart meters' that can tell all sorts of things about us. they didnt want to save electricity, they wanted our data. The city wanted to install one of those smart meters in my home, i refused. but I was told that unless i…

Question: what does the smart meter tell them that monitoring your usage otherwise wouldn't?

Potentially, what's playing on your TV

https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2012/01/08/28c3-smart-meter...

Re: The House That Spied on Me

#68

> Almost every TV on the market now is connected—because otherwise how do you Netflix and chill? If you buy a "smart" TV, refuse to connect it to the internet and just get an Apple TV/Chromecast/whatever.

Smart TV's features are worth avoiding.

Smarts that plug into to a TV are always evolving faster than Smarts built into the TV.

Re: The House That Spied on Me

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most people don't realize how bad all sorts of things in their life are. I'd say that most people are regularly bombarded by all these issues in the medias. If they still don't realize, then this is because they actively filter them out. > If you think things in the world should only change because of popular opinion & sales, then things like emancipation, environmental protection, worker protection, consumer prote…

I don't think it's only up the market competitors to Google/Apple. The market doesn't necessarily select against negative side effects, like privacy or the environment. Shifts in these need to happen outside the market. Things like legislative protection about rights, environment, and privacy are going to come from minority demands to claim those rights, not from hoping for a majority market pressure against convenie…

I wasn't talking about economic competitors, but opponents to Google/Apple in the political area (e.g. EFF), who may lobby for changes. Therefore my note about the democratic process. Minorities may make demands, but whether they pass or not does rest on the majority. Hence the need to sway popular opinion, which I don't see happening.

Re: The House That Spied on Me

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the majority of users doesn't care about this Only because they don't know what is going on.

The majority of users are not tech aware security engineers. The majority of users (myself included) don't want to spend hours of our lives effectively specializing in android/ios under the hood design, and/or browsing shady blogs and forums looking for ways to root our phones. Don't underestimate the domain knowledge that you've acquired, and the amount necessary to root a phone, let alone take control of linux embe…

I agree -- people shouldn't have to learn all of that. If the system were designed better, then there would be no need. Right now, it's open season on people who don't understand how things work (and even on many people who do understand how things work). So the system needs fixing.
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