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Sprawling Mayan network discovered under Guatemala jungle

bbc.com

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Re: Sprawling Mayan network discovered under Guatemala jungle

#61

Post by tlynchpin »

empath75 wrote: post #4

You see overgrown mounds all over central america, and not all of them are volcanic. There's an immense amount of undiscovered history there.

This is an astonishing thing to witness. Many people are familiar with the well known sites, they have seen the temples in pictures or on a TV show, for example Tikal. These sites are commonly depicted after they have been painstakingly reclaimed from the jungle, the structures are stone colored and the paths among them are dirt brown.

What's not commonly seen is the view out from atop one of these tall structures - the chaotic green sea of the jungle canopy is punctuated by tidy triangular mounds as far as the eye can see. The landscape is littered with these structures that were once upon a time built and maintained by many generations. Weep ye mighty!

Re: Sprawling Mayan network discovered under Guatemala jungle

#62

Post by NelsonMinar »

brett40324 wrote: post #7

This highly corroborates Charles C Mann's book 1491: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1491:_New_Revelations_of_the... From wikipedia: The book presents recent research findings in different fields that suggest human populations in the Western Hemisphere—that is, the indigenous peoples of the Americas—were more numerous, had arrived earlier, were more sophisticated culturally, and controlled and shaped the natural land…

1491 is great. It's twelve years old now; I keep waiting for a similar book updated with new scholarship. Things are changing fast.

Re: Sprawling Mayan network discovered under Guatemala jungle

#63

Post by 52-6F-62 »

Dangeranger wrote: post #49
52-6F-62 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not my field of expertise, but why wouldn't we just run LIDAR scans of as much of the earth's surface as possible? Is it prohibitively expensive at this point? Is the computation [relatively] expensive? Is there a sound reason we don't race to do more? I get the feeling this kind of data could inspire generations of new archaeologists and historians. There are also some pseudo-archeological and pseudo-histori…

LiDAR collection is pretty dense from a data perspective. When I was working with helicopter collection teams we would regularly collect 1TB of point data per day at around 120 points per square meter. Based on the density of the canopy in Central America, the teams are probably using a density greater than that, and are using "multiple return" depth mapping so that they can see through the forest. Processing LiDAR d…

Thanks, this is the kind of information I was curious about receiving in a concise digest.

So ultimately it sounds like I have to wait a decade or so before we can really proliferate, and to speed it up need a few more eccentric billionaires to get into funding some cool projects.

I'll use your information as jumping points to find out more.

Re: Sprawling Mayan network discovered under Guatemala jungle

#64

Post by Dangeranger »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #63
Dangeranger wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LiDAR collection is pretty dense from a data perspective. When I was working with helicopter collection teams we would regularly collect 1TB of point data per day at around 120 points per square meter. Based on the density of the canopy in Central America, the teams are probably using a density greater than that, and are using "multiple return" depth mapping so that they can see through the forest. Processing LiDAR d…

Thanks, this is the kind of information I was curious about receiving in a concise digest. So ultimately it sounds like I have to wait a decade or so before we can really proliferate, and to speed it up need a few more eccentric billionaires to get into funding some cool projects. I'll use your information as jumping points to find out more.

My hopes lie with the open sourcing of in-vehicle processing hardware and software that is being used within self driving cars. As of today my understanding is much of that is part of the "secret sauce" of companies like Waymo and others.

If it were possible to apply kinematic geo-correction along with point filtering and feature detection during collection then a lot of the "heavy" data could be reduced down to what is just needed for human verification.

If you want to start your investigation with existing projects you could have a look at what the United Kingdom is doing with their government LiDAR data sets[0][1].

[0] https://www.gov.uk/government/news/environment-agency-uncove...

[1] http://vterrain.org/Locations/uk/

Re: Sprawling Mayan network discovered under Guatemala jungle

#65

Post by 52-6F-62 »

Dangeranger wrote: post #64
52-6F-62 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, this is the kind of information I was curious about receiving in a concise digest. So ultimately it sounds like I have to wait a decade or so before we can really proliferate, and to speed it up need a few more eccentric billionaires to get into funding some cool projects. I'll use your information as jumping points to find out more.

My hopes lie with the open sourcing of in-vehicle processing hardware and software that is being used within self driving cars. As of today my understanding is much of that is part of the "secret sauce" of companies like Waymo and others. If it were possible to apply kinematic geo-correction along with point filtering and feature detection during collection then a lot of the "heavy" data could be reduced down to what…

Brilliant! Thank you. I wonder now if Canada has any projects remotely similar occuring

Re: Sprawling Mayan network discovered under Guatemala jungle

#66

Post by PoachedSausage »

mirimir wrote: post #60
acjohnson55 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, fears of overpopulation have less to do with how much of the earth serves as living space, but how much human activity currently impacts nearly every corner of the planet. I think it's plausible that we can lessen human impact without actually decreasing population. Not sure it's likely, though.

I recall a letter to Science from the mid 70s, rebutting The Limits to Growth . I have tried to find it more-or-less lately, with no luck. As I recall, its author argued that the Earth could support well over 10^8 people in Trantor style. He assumed unlimited energy from fusion, and substantial food synthesis. Only humans, pets, crops, livestock, and requisite insects and microorganisms would survive. The planetary s…

Because it is cheaper and easier to build stuff down here.

Space habitats require thinking in terms of systems, dealing with inputs and outputs. Humans haven't mastered systems thinking yet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

Re: Sprawling Mayan network discovered under Guatemala jungle

#67

Post by landryraccoon »

mirimir wrote: post #60
acjohnson55 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, fears of overpopulation have less to do with how much of the earth serves as living space, but how much human activity currently impacts nearly every corner of the planet. I think it's plausible that we can lessen human impact without actually decreasing population. Not sure it's likely, though.

I recall a letter to Science from the mid 70s, rebutting The Limits to Growth . I have tried to find it more-or-less lately, with no luck. As I recall, its author argued that the Earth could support well over 10^8 people in Trantor style. He assumed unlimited energy from fusion, and substantial food synthesis. Only humans, pets, crops, livestock, and requisite insects and microorganisms would survive. The planetary s…

10^8 is a hundred million people, so yeah, it's safe to say the Earth can support well over that many humans.

Re: Sprawling Mayan network discovered under Guatemala jungle

#68

Post by [deleted] »

Dangeranger wrote: post #49
52-6F-62 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not my field of expertise, but why wouldn't we just run LIDAR scans of as much of the earth's surface as possible? Is it prohibitively expensive at this point? Is the computation [relatively] expensive? Is there a sound reason we don't race to do more? I get the feeling this kind of data could inspire generations of new archaeologists and historians. There are also some pseudo-archeological and pseudo-histori…

LiDAR collection is pretty dense from a data perspective. When I was working with helicopter collection teams we would regularly collect 1TB of point data per day at around 120 points per square meter. Based on the density of the canopy in Central America, the teams are probably using a density greater than that, and are using "multiple return" depth mapping so that they can see through the forest. Processing LiDAR d…

[deleted]

Re: Sprawling Mayan network discovered under Guatemala jungle

#69

Post by [deleted] »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #63
Dangeranger wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LiDAR collection is pretty dense from a data perspective. When I was working with helicopter collection teams we would regularly collect 1TB of point data per day at around 120 points per square meter. Based on the density of the canopy in Central America, the teams are probably using a density greater than that, and are using "multiple return" depth mapping so that they can see through the forest. Processing LiDAR d…

Thanks, this is the kind of information I was curious about receiving in a concise digest. So ultimately it sounds like I have to wait a decade or so before we can really proliferate, and to speed it up need a few more eccentric billionaires to get into funding some cool projects. I'll use your information as jumping points to find out more.

[deleted]

Re: Sprawling Mayan network discovered under Guatemala jungle

#70

Post by Scooty »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #63
Dangeranger wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LiDAR collection is pretty dense from a data perspective. When I was working with helicopter collection teams we would regularly collect 1TB of point data per day at around 120 points per square meter. Based on the density of the canopy in Central America, the teams are probably using a density greater than that, and are using "multiple return" depth mapping so that they can see through the forest. Processing LiDAR d…

Thanks, this is the kind of information I was curious about receiving in a concise digest. So ultimately it sounds like I have to wait a decade or so before we can really proliferate, and to speed it up need a few more eccentric billionaires to get into funding some cool projects. I'll use your information as jumping points to find out more.

Maybe the technology will become accessable enough that everyone with a smart phone can start finding and destroying archaeological sites.
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