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Bill Nye Does Not Speak for Us and He Does Not Speak for Science

blogs.scientificamerican.com

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Re: Bill Nye Does Not Speak for Us and He Does Not Speak for Science

#61

Post by gojomo »

aaroninsf wrote: post #28
gojomo wrote: post #7

No. Merely attending the SOTU, or being someone's guest, or talking with someone, does not imply "tacit endorsement" of their agenda.

It does something different and equally pernicious. There is real impact in lending your image and accrued credibility and reputation: your social capital. The associative mind associates; semantics are an afterthought. Providing for the association is a act with moral consequences, intended or unwitting. Nye should know better.

What "moral consequences"? Nye's stances on relevant issues are well-documented. They're not refuted by merely sitting in a chair next to someone else.

He's not 'lending' anything to anyone, except in the reaching imagination of those obsessed with wholly-symbolic rituals of association, distancing, and shunning.

If this appearance causes some to claim Nye supports Trump's agenda – they'll quickly be refuted with all Nye's writings and performances otherwise.

If this controversy wins Nye extra media appearances, he'll there again clearly articulate his own true views for anyone who might have been confused by the childlike, pre-modern, quasi-religious doctrine that "near contaminates near with idea cooties".

Re: Bill Nye Does Not Speak for Us and He Does Not Speak for Science

#62

Post by dogma1138 »

wnevets wrote: post #29
volgo wrote: post #2

This is ridiculous. They're claiming that merely associating himself with the government is a tacit support of Trump's attack on science. Bill is there to promote NASA's space exploration initiative. If you withdraw from participating in the government for the mere reason that it's connected to Trump in general, you're not gonna push any of your agendas forward.

Yeah I was really hoping for more, this is kind of a joke. For example at one point Nye was very anti-GMOs despite the science and ignoring the science is worthy of such a headline.

He wasn’t anti GMO he was saying that transgenics needs more study which might be correct.

We can’t feed the world without GMOs but splicing genes from cuttlefish into tomatoes to make them produce a specific protein might have some consequences down the line we aren’t aware of yet.

Re: Bill Nye Does Not Speak for Us and He Does Not Speak for Science

#63

Post by basch »

craig1f wrote: post #43
toomuchtodo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t care for Bill Nye or Neil deGrasse Tyson personally, but science needs every advocate in these dark times.

A bad advocate undoes the work of a good advocate. Bill Nye doesn't really use scientific methods. His last show was a mess, because he made assertions he didn't back up. Bill Nye has done good work on the past, but he is undoing the work he has done lately.

the world needs more Beakman

Re: Bill Nye Does Not Speak for Us and He Does Not Speak for Science

#65

Post by FiatLuxDave »

dkarl wrote: post #50
volgo wrote: post #2

This is ridiculous. They're claiming that merely associating himself with the government is a tacit support of Trump's attack on science. Bill is there to promote NASA's space exploration initiative. If you withdraw from participating in the government for the mere reason that it's connected to Trump in general, you're not gonna push any of your agendas forward.

He isn't just doing business with the government, talking with policy-makers, or showing up to make sure his side is represented. He's attending a formal event as the official guest of a partisan politician. They aren't there to talk or work or negotiate. They're there to appear . And Bill Nye has offered his appearance, his own personal halo, to an enemy of science and an enemy of many decent values that scientists…

To quote Spock, "There's an old Vulcan proverb: Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: Bill Nye Does Not Speak for Us and He Does Not Speak for Science

#66

Post by ScottBurson »

volgo wrote: post #2

This is ridiculous. They're claiming that merely associating himself with the government is a tacit support of Trump's attack on science. Bill is there to promote NASA's space exploration initiative. If you withdraw from participating in the government for the mere reason that it's connected to Trump in general, you're not gonna push any of your agendas forward.

That was my first reaction too, but I think the authors make a good case that by attending with Rep. Bridenstine, Nye tacitly displays support for a right-wing anti-science agenda. If he went as a guest of Nancy Pelosi, say, it would send a very different message.

Re: Bill Nye Does Not Speak for Us and He Does Not Speak for Science

#67

Post by glitchc »

amha wrote: post #23

What's frustrating here is the attitude that if you agree with (or work with) someone on some particular topic, then you are necessarily endorsing that person's views on EVERY topic. In other words, you should never associate with someone unless you agree with 100% of their views. If we brought this attitude into our personal lives, it would make our interactions with family members and colleagues impossible! I disag…

Agreed. The letter suggests the authors have a tenuous grip at best on logic. Perhaps their scientific endeavours are circumspect as well? (See what I did there, authors?)

Re: Bill Nye Does Not Speak for Us and He Does Not Speak for Science

#68

Post by wnevets »

dogma1138 wrote: post #62
wnevets wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I was really hoping for more, this is kind of a joke. For example at one point Nye was very anti-GMOs despite the science and ignoring the science is worthy of such a headline.

He wasn’t anti GMO he was saying that transgenics needs more study which might be correct. We can’t feed the world without GMOs but splicing genes from cuttlefish into tomatoes to make them produce a specific protein might have some consequences down the line we aren’t aware of yet.

he specifically mentions GMOs

https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2016/10/why_bill_nye_c...

Re: Bill Nye Does Not Speak for Us and He Does Not Speak for Science

#69

Post by mcguire »

amha wrote: post #23

What's frustrating here is the attitude that if you agree with (or work with) someone on some particular topic, then you are necessarily endorsing that person's views on EVERY topic. In other words, you should never associate with someone unless you agree with 100% of their views. If we brought this attitude into our personal lives, it would make our interactions with family members and colleagues impossible! I disag…

It depends. Does does he do more good by being there, to keep the doors open and to support some NASA programs? Or does he do more harm by allowing the ultra-conservatives to say, "hey, the science guy supports us?"

Re: Bill Nye Does Not Speak for Us and He Does Not Speak for Science

#70

Post by mcguire »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #46
debt wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is he's "the science guy" which by extension many laypeople associate with actual scientists. By attending the SOTU, to laypeople it makes it look like scientists agree with the president's positions on climate change. Unfortunately, I believe this demonization of Bill Nye is appropriate.

How is this an appropriate attitude to have? Not attacking you, but are you saying that NO scientist or "science guys" can try and influence politics right now just because there is someone in the office who, very obviously, doesn't understand science? Edit: I believe if you want to change behavior, you model the behavior yourself. If you shut yourself out of the discussion, then so will others. You don't tell people…

You can show people how to fish without appearing at a PR dog-and pony show with someone who is actively opposed to what you claim to want to do.
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