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Soon, Cars in Denmark Will Only Be Taxed at 100% (2017)

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Re: Soon, Cars in Denmark Will Only Be Taxed at 100% (2017)

#61

Post by devnonymous »

ceejayoz wrote: post #44
wycs wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economic freedom is very underrated compared freedom of political expression. There are many ways in which Singaporeans are much more free than we are.

Economic freedom (which I'm presuming means "lower taxes"?) isn't much use to you if you're executed for possessing drugs, or indefinitely detained without charge, need a permit to assemble, can't criticize the government, etc.

> if you're executed for possessing drugs, or indefinitely detained without charge, need a permit to assemble, can't criticize the government, etc.

Erm, all those things(+) can, and do, happen in 'free' countries. They're just not officially sanctioned and are reported differently. If you were to look at this objectively (without depending on just the official figures) I'd say per capita, human rights abuse / exploitation is worse in the US than Singapore.

(+) and worse, eg: get executed for being the wrong color at the wrong time and place

Re: Soon, Cars in Denmark Will Only Be Taxed at 100% (2017)

#62

Post by ljf »

stevenjohns wrote: post #38
hrasyid wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If 180% is excessive, then Singapore begs to disagree: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki51vh6ihJs Anyway, I don't think it's a ban. There are literally cars in Singapore :) If you think a regular sedan is worth >$100k (it's normal in Singapore), you can buy it. But make sure you pay for the externalities (traffic, pollution, parking, road-building, ...) that is caused by your choice.

It depends on where you live, but things like infrastructure are almost supposed to be paid for by drivers in the form of fuel excise taxes[0] or paying road tolls. Paying for parking isn't uncommon either. I agree that pollution is something that needs to be addressed, though. If taxes on cars were to increase for infrastructure, it would feel like the government is double dipping. Not to mention the general benefit…

Interesting that taxes are tied in that way. Here in the UK (and much of Europe I believe?) all tax goes into a central pot, which is then shared out, to remove the direct relationship.

There are a couple of exceptions like cigarette taxes and I now believe some of the emissions tax all vehicles pay has been ear marked for roads - though I'm not a fan of this (and a cyclist) as it leads to the feeling that car drivers 'own' that road as they 'pay' for it.

Re: Soon, Cars in Denmark Will Only Be Taxed at 100% (2017)

#63

Post by ars »

ucaetano wrote: post #50
ansgri wrote: post #39

I understand the viewpoint that less cars = better cities. But worse cars? Because this heavily penalizes buying better cars. I understand the need to segment the tax burden by income level, but it seems reasonable to make the maximum tax level so that, e.g. you pay flat €50k in taxes if your car costs more than €50k. You can play even the safety card here: more expensive cars have more advanced automation and safety…

> you pay flat €50k in taxes if your car costs more than €50k. That would be the same as capping income tax: you pay a 20% rate up to $100k of taxes, after that, no incremental taxes. It's the opposite of progressive, actually taxing rich people less than poor people. I'd even go and propose that cars over €50k should be taxed at a higher marginal tax rate than lower-priced cars.

There's a difference between taxing income and taxing spending.

They are opposites, so the tax rate should also be opposite - the higher the spending the lower the tax.

After all, you want to encourage wealthy people to spend and spread the wealth, not encourage them to hoard it.

Re: Soon, Cars in Denmark Will Only Be Taxed at 100% (2017)

#64

Post by qiqing »

ansgri wrote: post #39

I understand the viewpoint that less cars = better cities. But worse cars? Because this heavily penalizes buying better cars. I understand the need to segment the tax burden by income level, but it seems reasonable to make the maximum tax level so that, e.g. you pay flat €50k in taxes if your car costs more than €50k. You can play even the safety card here: more expensive cars have more advanced automation and safety…

The tax rate of cars in China is similar, and it results in fewer cars, and more people taking public transit. Note: this is also because there is very advanced public transit that can handle high throughput, and only the super-wealthy buy cars, in part to show off.

Re: Soon, Cars in Denmark Will Only Be Taxed at 100% (2017)

#65

Post by olivermarks »

sundvor wrote: post #43
olivermarks wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A side note in the article is the collapse of electric vehicle sales in Norway. '...the current administration had decided to phase out tax breaks on electric cars, citing budget constraints and the desire to level the playing field. That decision was delayed in June amid a dramatic drop in sales of Electrically Chargeable Vehicles (ECVs)'. ECV sales have relied very heavily on subsidy in most of the western world, i…

Collapse of EV sales in Norway? Quick, someone needs to call Tesla about that.. https://electrek.co/2017/12/19/tesla-breaks-new-records-norw...

https://www.ft.com/content/fe6b79d4-af31-11e7-aab9-abaa44b1e...

Re: Soon, Cars in Denmark Will Only Be Taxed at 100% (2017)

#66

Post by hrasyid »

stevenjohns wrote: post #38
hrasyid wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If 180% is excessive, then Singapore begs to disagree: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki51vh6ihJs Anyway, I don't think it's a ban. There are literally cars in Singapore :) If you think a regular sedan is worth >$100k (it's normal in Singapore), you can buy it. But make sure you pay for the externalities (traffic, pollution, parking, road-building, ...) that is caused by your choice.

It depends on where you live, but things like infrastructure are almost supposed to be paid for by drivers in the form of fuel excise taxes[0] or paying road tolls. Paying for parking isn't uncommon either. I agree that pollution is something that needs to be addressed, though. If taxes on cars were to increase for infrastructure, it would feel like the government is double dipping. Not to mention the general benefit…

> it would feel like the government is double dipping.

Remember, the side effect of this policy is that car ownership rate becomes really low. I doubt the purpose is to increase revenue. Maybe it's more about minimizing the negative externalities.

Re: Soon, Cars in Denmark Will Only Be Taxed at 100% (2017)

#67

Post by hrasyid »

raverbashing wrote: post #36
andys627 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not excessive - they're more in line with true cost of car dependent society. In the US we shower subsidies on car owners. Some examples: using general fund money to build highways, charging low gas taxes that don't cover cost of maintenance of roads, providing free/underpriced parking in every downtown in the US, undercharging for pollution and other negative externalities of driving, requiring minimum amoun…

> using general fund money to build highways You're forgetting about trucks (and other service vehicles), and though trains are better, you can't have trains everywhere > providing free/underpriced parking in every downtown in the US Downtown is predominantly paid parking, and not underpriced either

> Downtown is predominantly paid parking, and not underpriced either

Yes but the vast majority of American cars don't park in downtown.

Re: Soon, Cars in Denmark Will Only Be Taxed at 100% (2017)

#69

Post by reaperducer »

martin_bech wrote: post #48

This is an article from this summer. The negotiations ended at a tax rate of 85% for cars priced up to 185.000 DKK about 30.000USD. And 150% tax for the rest. There are som deductions for safety ratings, mileage etc. but these are now the current taxrates for cars. Beware before the car tax, the cars are subject to 25% sales tax. So expensive cars are +25% + 150%. (it used to be even worse)

Once you pay that tax at purchase, is there also annual registration fees?

A few of the American states I've lived in have charged annual taxes based on a car's worth (decreasing over time). I hope you don't get nailed every year!

Re: Soon, Cars in Denmark Will Only Be Taxed at 100% (2017)

#70

Post by rconti »

charlesdm wrote: post #8

Now, I don't live in Denmark, but am I the only one here who wouldn't like (excessive) tax policies like that? A 180% tax (now to be lowered a bit) on a vehicle seems madly excessive. It's like a ban, without actually having the guts to call it a ban. I'm assuming most normal people are unable to afford a car then. I'm not a car nut (don't even really like cars, though I do own one and don't use it often) but wouldn'…

I am a car nut, and I'm happy to live in the US where I can afford fun cars that I would not be able to afford in other places.

However, I also see quite a bit of logic in this. It increases not just the COST of a car, but the value as well. Now your car doesn't depreciate as fast, which makes repairs seem more reasonable. The resale value is higher. People buy more used cars, repair them, and keep them on the road. In the end, the "cost" of just throwing a car on the scrap heap (okay, dismantling and scavanging for parts/melting down metal, etc) is much higher.

There are really some great consequences to this.

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