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What Happens When Doctors Only Take Cash (2017)

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Re: What Happens When Doctors Only Take Cash (2017)

#61

Post by will_brown »

linsomniac wrote: post #24

My local mechanic is required by law to tell me how much something is going to cost me before they start work. Why is my doctor not held to the same standard. Ever tried calling a provider to find out how much something is going to cost? Sounds like the medical industry had better lobbyists.

Odds are there is a State Law on point that requires a similar disclosure of estimates on medical services.

Take Florida Statute 581.026, titled Florida Patient’s Bill of Rights and Responsibilities

Subsection (4)(c)(5) reads: a health care provider or a health care facility shall, upon request, furnish a person, before the provision of medical services, a reasonable estimate of charges for such service.

In one case I represented a patient who video recorded asking a health care admin for an estimate and getting an answer of under $2,000. The bill ended up being somewhere between $12,000-$14,000. A single letter citing the law and the patients entire bill was discharged by the health care facility.

Re: What Happens When Doctors Only Take Cash (2017)

#62

Post by conanbatt »

harrisreynolds wrote: post #46

I've been wondering for a while now why health insurance companies exist at all. They introduce a massive bureaucracy and massive costs and provide very little value. They evolved from a reasonable idea into a monster that just drains our system and do not provide enough value to justify their existence in my opinion.

And yet, health insurance companies have very low profit margins, the lowest amongst the insurance companies. So who is getting all the money?

Re: What Happens When Doctors Only Take Cash (2017)

#63

Post by conanbatt »

Giacomot wrote: post #29
t3rmi wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does one break so many bones?

Free healthcare is a great incentive to be careless with your body. /s* edit: I was being sarcastic

Free healthcare is a great incentive for the state to ban alcohol, sugar and drugs.

Not /s if you look at actual argumentation on soda taxes.

Re: What Happens When Doctors Only Take Cash (2017)

#64

Post by rvail2 »

killjoywashere wrote: post #30

This whole thread is full of young, SV libertarians who haven't really thought out what healthcare involves. Lawyers don't have an upfront, all inclusive price for divorce, they charge by the hour. I'm pretty sure software developers charge by the hour, at least for the interesting work. Sure, I'll build you a Wordpress blog for $3k. Would you gaurantee you could build a clinic website that supports major insurance a…

What about a dermatologist? An appointment has a set fee. If you need treatment for something out of the ordinary, they give you options and prices. Then, you get to decide on how you proceed.

Seems pretty simple.

Re: What Happens When Doctors Only Take Cash (2017)

#65

Post by wu-ikkyu »

conanbatt wrote: post #62
harrisreynolds wrote: post #46

I've been wondering for a while now why health insurance companies exist at all. They introduce a massive bureaucracy and massive costs and provide very little value. They evolved from a reasonable idea into a monster that just drains our system and do not provide enough value to justify their existence in my opinion.

And yet, health insurance companies have very low profit margins, the lowest amongst the insurance companies. So who is getting all the money?

Pharmaceuticals

Re: What Happens When Doctors Only Take Cash (2017)

#66

Post by conanbatt »

otakucode wrote: post #53

You son has broken his arm. The doctors in your town will only take cash. One of the doctors charges $50 to set the broken arm. The other doctor charges $500. Which one are you going to take your child to? Most likely, the $500 one. Because going to the bargain basement doctor is not something you do when dealing with medical issues if there is absolutely any way to afford it. It creates what I call 'reverse capitali…

I don't think thats true. There is a price bias, but thats not the only quality signal for medical care. There's reviews, facility and installations, reputation, etc.

People are price sensitive regarding their own life and their children's. You can find how much they value things with "revealed preferences", an economists principle.

Its a bigger problem that as a consumer you don't have to or face the decision of choosing by price, eliminating marketing mechanics from healthcare.

Re: What Happens When Doctors Only Take Cash (2017)

#67

Post by allannienhuis »

conanbatt wrote: post #62
harrisreynolds wrote: post #46

I've been wondering for a while now why health insurance companies exist at all. They introduce a massive bureaucracy and massive costs and provide very little value. They evolved from a reasonable idea into a monster that just drains our system and do not provide enough value to justify their existence in my opinion.

And yet, health insurance companies have very low profit margins, the lowest amongst the insurance companies. So who is getting all the money?

It it too tin-foil-hat to think that the majority of shareholders in health insurance providers are medical professionals who benefit from the arrangement?

Re: What Happens When Doctors Only Take Cash (2017)

#68

Post by topspin »

harrisreynolds wrote: post #46

I've been wondering for a while now why health insurance companies exist at all. They introduce a massive bureaucracy and massive costs and provide very little value. They evolved from a reasonable idea into a monster that just drains our system and do not provide enough value to justify their existence in my opinion.

I've studied this a little. There are many stories depending on what you choose to believe. I believe the current state of affairs is a consequence of tax policy; health insurance benefits are untaxed income, a tax policy often attributed to powerful labor unions in the early 20th century. ACA attempted to tax "Cadillac" plans but the sunrise on that was kicked years down the road and when it was about to take effect in 2015 the can was kicked again to 2020. The tax is likely to be repealed before then.

So health insurance remains an enormous untaxed income benefit, one that grows in importance as health care costs spiral up. As a wise person once said; If you want more of something, subsidize it. Thus our present health insurance regime.

Re: What Happens When Doctors Only Take Cash (2017)

#69

Post by thephyber »

conanbatt wrote: post #60
linsomniac wrote: post #24

My local mechanic is required by law to tell me how much something is going to cost me before they start work. Why is my doctor not held to the same standard. Ever tried calling a provider to find out how much something is going to cost? Sounds like the medical industry had better lobbyists.

Because the cost is unknown until treatment is over. Also, funny comparison, try to make it with software engineering.

> Because the cost is unknown until treatment is over.

If you held a mechanic to the same standard, they "wouldn't know the cost" either.

Maybe the doctor's office doesn't know your out-of-pocket cost, but they generally know (within a reasonable rage) how much they will bill the insurance company for. Perhaps an underlying problem is that a health insurance-medical pratcice contract prevents the medical practice from revealing the negotiated+contracted costs.

In the case that the nurse/doctor/surgeon decides to change the prognosis/prescription during the visit, there are provisions for that type of action with auto mechanics, too.

Re: What Happens When Doctors Only Take Cash (2017)

#70

Post by refurb »

cwbrandsma wrote: post #33
linsomniac wrote: post #24

My local mechanic is required by law to tell me how much something is going to cost me before they start work. Why is my doctor not held to the same standard. Ever tried calling a provider to find out how much something is going to cost? Sounds like the medical industry had better lobbyists.

Reality is they don't know. They know how much it will cost them...sort of. They have a log of how much they charge for each procedure, and then individual insurance providers will pay a percentage of that. Some of which the hospital will pass on you. Even then, it is up to insurance company to figure out how much they will pay. "Adam Ruins Everything" had a really good segment on this.

But it's no different with a car mechanic.

The mechanic gives you a quote. If the costs changes they get your explicit approval.

That would be nice to start there on the medical side.

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