Does Brexit end not with a bang but a whimper? • Hacker News Board

Re: Does Brexit end not with a bang but a whimper?

#61

Post by pjc50 » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 1:07 PM UTC

marrs wrote: post #46

forinti wrote: post #9

I can't decide if Brexit is good or bad for the UK. On the one hand, there's the common market and freedom of movement. On the other there's Germany's dominance and lots of fragile banks. What would be worse, losing access to the free market or being around if the banks fail? Or would being outside the market make a difference if Deutsche Bank failed?

Losing access to the free market would be fine if we gain access to the global market, at least in the medium to long term. The ability to drop tariffs on imports would be a big deal even in the short term. In reality, though, I don't see us leaving the trappings of the EU with this current govt: we'll just lose our seat at the table (to coin a phrase). This was never going to be quick, though: the Brexit issue will…

> the ability to drop tariffs on imports would be a big deal even in the short term

That is, the benefit is the ability to replace British-made goods with cheaper foreign imports? I'm just saying because normally people make the argument the other way round.

Re: Does Brexit end not with a bang but a whimper?

#62

Post by blibble » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 1:08 PM UTC

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #25

Anderkent wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think UK is open to leaving with no deal then? Granted, if the EU position is sabotaged by some members (as the Polish PM was hinting towards), maybe the UK can get a better deal than what implied by the article. But if the EU stands together, I see little reason for them to be considerate to quitters.

> Granted, if the EU position is sabotaged by some members (as the Polish PM was hinting towards) The biggest problem of the EU is also its biggest strength. It needs unity for this. So if Poland goes rogue nothing happens, article 50 kicks in and no deal happens. That indirectly strengthens the EU now quite a bit ironically enough.

this is incorrect: Article 50 states that the withdrawal agreement only requires a Qualified Majority, not unanimity

Poland's consent is not required

Re: Does Brexit end not with a bang but a whimper?

#63

Post by Angostura » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 1:08 PM UTC

0942v8653 wrote: post #37

Will the UK still participate in the GDPR after Brexit? Are there plans to write up something similar?

The simple answer is 'yes' - the government and opposition parties are committed to implementing GDPR in full.

Re: Does Brexit end not with a bang but a whimper?

#64

Post by craigsmansion » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 1:08 PM UTC

te_chris wrote: post #23

Now Nigel (fucking) Farage is calling for a 2nd referendum. You can't make this shit up. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/11/nigel-farag...

It's win-win for him.

Leave wins. He's a hero.

Leave loses. He gets to keep his "job," and remains a martyr for the cause.

The problem here is referenda and "winning" or "losing" them. Any sane system would have interpreted an outcome like 48-52 with a soft approach (exactly what happened in Norway), not a winner-takes-all mentality. Maybe it's an outcome of FPTP and a two party system.

As long as referenda are treated as football matches, the outcome doesn't really matter. They will sow discord and divide society. "Discord and division" is exactly the sort of environment the likes of Farage thrive in. It doesn't matter to them what the outcome is as long as it creates strife and hardens opinions.

Re: Does Brexit end not with a bang but a whimper?

#65

Post by Erlich_Bachman » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 1:08 PM UTC

scandox wrote: post #3

Amazing how small errors in a text start to degrade your confidence in the content. At the outset the sentences are clear and mostly correct. As it goes on small errors start to appear and occasionally the entire meaning of a sentence becomes unclear. By the end, reading his slightly dramatic flourish, you get the feeling that he wrote with some emotion and wasn't tending to the language very carefully. On the one ha…

You're not the only one to feel this way. I think this is a very valid position, there is nothing superstitious about it. Any user of (the English in this case) language is able to (easily learn to) write without major mistakes, make their sentences proper, make their thoughts clear. If they haven't done so, it definitely hints at a lack of care, or being in a rush, or simply not respecting the language and/or their readers. Not respecting them in a sense that the author tries to overlay a part of their own work as a writer (the work of forming coherent and correct language structure) onto the reader, making them decipher author's thoughts which were not formed into a commonly accepted standard.

Are there published documents out there with a lot of mistakes that definitely have high quality information and research? Yes of course there are. But the odds are not in their favor.

Re: Does Brexit end not with a bang but a whimper?

#66

Post by djsumdog » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 1:08 PM UTC

adwhit wrote: post #8

A real shame that Oxford decided to name their department after an oligarch who expropriated huge wealth out of Russia [1]. Sad to admit I consider any position associated with the Blavatnik name tainted. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/nov/03/oxford-uni...

Could you please explain how this relates to Brexit? (genuinely curious).

Re: Does Brexit end not with a bang but a whimper?

#67

Post by moomin » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 1:08 PM UTC

rusk wrote: post #53

I kind of feel the whimper came before Christmas, in the talks discussing Northern Ireland and the status of the border there between the UK and Europe. I can't remember the details exactly but the Good Friday Agreement [0] provided a constitutional footing whereby the UK effectively gave an undertaking to abide by the rules of the EU trade area, while not being a member of the EU trade area . This to prevent the ere…

The Good Friday Agreement basically makes the UK (or Ireland) the single worst country to attempt to leave the EU. The biggest problem with the December declaration being that it's hard to trust the government to make good on it. (The consequences for being seen to be negotiating in bad faith are too awful to contemplate, but the government seems to be post-rational a lot of the time.)

Re: Does Brexit end not with a bang but a whimper?

#68

Post by bromuro » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 1:09 PM UTC

StanAngeloff wrote: post #5

As a EU resident who is a partner in several UK based businesses, the uncertainty over what's coming next is frightening. When I approached different colleagues, friends & family in the UK, they all had different views on what should happen. To an outsider, it looks like opinions have been polarised. If you are managing a business that has ties to the UK there are very many unknowns right now. It's a lot easier to pl…

There’s been a lot of FUD about brexit, the only damages if any are because of it. Too much propaganda from both sides.

Re: Does Brexit end not with a bang but a whimper?

#69

Post by ben_w » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 1:10 PM UTC

Havoc wrote: post #31

te_chris wrote: post #23

Now Nigel (fucking) Farage is calling for a 2nd referendum. You can't make this shit up. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/11/nigel-farag...

Ideal. That dodgy first vote is no good basis to make such changes on. Think that's going to bite Nigel in a arse though.

> Think that's going to bite Nige

Disagree. He said before the referendum that 48%-52% would be unfinished business, but didn’t seem to lose credibility amongst his supporters from it. Something may eventually tarnish his Teflon, but he’d probably be able to turn defeat in a second referendum into a rallying cry for a literal attempted revolution. (I place odds of UK civil war in the next 6 years at about 10%).

Re: Does Brexit end not with a bang but a whimper?

#70

Post by timthorn » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 1:10 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #51

iand wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Varoufakis resigned the day after the referendum, before the Greek government accepted the bailout.

Farage was never officially part of any the UK power structure, except the media.

He's an MEP. You can argue about their powers out his effectiveness, but he's an elected representative which I'd have thought puts him within the UK power structure.