As remote work proliferates, I think that local market rates become less relevant anyway. So I’d say they are paying the remote worker rate, not the SF rate. It’s not so much because Basecamp wants to give away extra money, but rather because they are competing for top developers that have the choice to work for companies in places like SF and must offer salaries that are competitive with those companies.
Basecamp doesn’t employ anyone in SF, but now we pay everyone as though all did
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Re: Basecamp doesn’t employ anyone in SF, but now we pay everyone as though all did
#62Well done. Personally, as a remote developer, I always make a point of billing at my "Bay Area Rate", even though I've never lived there. There was a point, early in my guy-on-the-beach-with-a-laptop era where I would cut my bill rate in half while working from the beach with a laptop. Clients were happy about that, and it more than paid for beers and thatch huts. Then one time I tried not cutting my bill rate in hal…
I live in the SF Bay. My "onsite" day rate is much higher than my "remote" rate.
All of my local clients accept a compromise; meet in-person once per sprint (every 2-4 weeks). Otherwise all work is done remotely.
My remote employees and contractors are not required to commute or work onsite, therefore the remote rate applies.
Kudos to Basecamp for committing to standard salary levels, but I believe geographic cost-of-living adjustments are more accurately assessed through periodic bonuses.
Re: Basecamp doesn’t employ anyone in SF, but now we pay everyone as though all did
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
Isn't it? Given a situation with two developers working remotely with exactly the same skills, experience and knowledge on the same project, but one works in India, the other one works in the Bay area. Can you give me one valid reason why the developer in India should get a penny less than the developer in the Bay area? And that the cost of living is less in India than in SF is not, in my opinion, a valid reason. You…
> You pay your developers, or any staff come to that, what they're worth to you. It's not that easy. What they are worth to you is your upper limit. What they are willing to work for is the lower bound. It's composed of many things, mostly supply and demand, but not an insignificant portion is living expenses. Most employers would gravitate towards the lower bound. And for a dev in India, it might be reasonable to pa…
Sure, given a dev in India and a dev in SF with the same skill set, then the one in India will be willing to work for less. But when you offer a SF salary in India, then you might get a much better dev.
So, theoretically, in case of remote work and a global pool of talent, it is a less optimal use of your dollars to adjust salaries to the cost of living (all other things being equal, e.g. skill set level, culture).
Re: Basecamp doesn’t employ anyone in SF, but now we pay everyone as though all did
#64DHH has the coolest desk and home office I've ever seen: https://www.instagram.com/p/BcnPtAwlAKe/?hl=en&taken-by=dhh7...
Check out the rest of the house too, amazing.
I think some people have this image that Basecamp and DHH is some scrappy bootstrapper fighting the establishment. But really he is living the life that even most successful "exited" venture fueled founders wouldn't be able to attain, and he's just saying there's another (perhaps even easier) way.
As I build my company, DHH + Basecamp, Jan Koum + WhatsApp, are my role models. Maximize the revenue per employee, not the number of employees (cough Twitter).
Re: Basecamp doesn’t employ anyone in SF, but now we pay everyone as though all did
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
Basecamp is selling all over the world. What should their salary level be like? Bay Area because that’s where a lot of the larger tech companies are situated? Washington State (Microsoft, Amazon)? Copenhagen (where one founder, DHH is from)? Sudney where one major competitor, Jira, is from? I’d say whatever the market is that they hire in. If you wanna pay above market rate, by all means do that. If you can attract e…
People often tell me, "Yeah the Bay Area is expensive but the tech salaries make up for it." By being able to get a Bay Area salary (e.g. $150k/year) while working from anywhere in the world (e.g. any city where $40k/year is considered comfortable living and $80k/year is considered "well off"), the incentive to continue saturating the area with local talent decreases. Same salary, lower cost of living, AND the abilit…
150k sounds way low for the Bay Area you can get that in other much less expensive metro areas.
Re: Basecamp doesn’t employ anyone in SF, but now we pay everyone as though all did
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've always wondered what kind of development work you can do with a laptop chilling at the beach...
None, due to the glare and distractions. The real work gets done back at hotel/airbnb/coliving/coworking.
This was my experience. When I was a digital nomad my workdays were just spent in a variety of airbnbs instead of my home office. I did spend two weeks working on a beach in Cadiz, but I found that either I was too focused on the work to enjoy the beach or too focused on the surroundings to be productive.
Re: Basecamp doesn’t employ anyone in SF, but now we pay everyone as though all did
#67Better not tell SF; they'll want you to pay SF taxes.
Re: Basecamp doesn’t employ anyone in SF, but now we pay everyone as though all did
#68Starting 2018, Basecamp is paying everyone as though they live in San Francisco and work for a software company that pays in the top 10% of that market (compared to base pay + bonus, but not options)
Options can be fairly large part of the compensation in SF, often as much or more than your salary (which is already highest in the market). Depending on the maturity of the company those might be a lottery ticket or actually liquid stock that you can sell on the public market.
Re: Basecamp doesn’t employ anyone in SF, but now we pay everyone as though all did
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
EDIT: This comment was incorrect and I do not wish for more down votes. ORIGINAL: I believe it should be about 100 USD/hour for skilled consultant, but maybe someone with more experience can correct that.
For employment yes, consultant or contractor (which you probably will be if you're remote) can make double or more. 100 USD/hour is Prague, Czech Republic-level rate for a skilled consultant.
for these rates, how long would the contract be?
Re: Basecamp doesn’t employ anyone in SF, but now we pay everyone as though all did
#70DHH has the coolest desk and home office I've ever seen: https://www.instagram.com/p/BcnPtAwlAKe/?hl=en&taken-by=dhh7... Check out the rest of the house too, amazing. I think some people have this image that Basecamp and DHH is some scrappy bootstrapper fighting the establishment. But really he is living the life that even most successful "exited" venture fueled founders wouldn't be able to attain, and he's just sayi…
Instagram bragging is so incredibly cliche at this point that it actually makes me sad for those who engage in or with it. It's like a race to see who can appear more desperate for the approval of strangers.