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Adderall Risks: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

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Re: Adderall Risks: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#61

Post by kazagistar »

heymijo wrote: post #50
fny wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't take adderall, but I'm not too convinced by the concerns listed here. The drug seems far less risky than alcohol on all counts, and I'm pretty sure all amphetamine users are aware that their playing with some sort of fire. I think the compelling question is why people feel so compelled to take a pill to sell their souls to a rat race? Seems like an almost Huxleyan Prisoner's Dilemma to me.

"I think the compelling question is why people feel so compelled to take a pill to sell their souls to a rat race?" There seems to be an implicit assumption in your question that refers to adults. What about the growing number of people, diagnosed and treated as children or young adults before they really have an agency in the matter? Some U.S. based statistics on diagnoses for different https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/ad…

I know we like to think of them as not having agency, but we can still give teens and preteens choices. I know some kids who the medication helped, some who grew out of needing it when they grew older, and some who had strong side effects and stopped taking it after a few weeks. But they most certainly did have that choice.

Re: Adderall Risks: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#62

Post by jasonlotito »

zschuessler wrote: post #51

If anyone here reading this needs the motivation or gentle reminder: you might not need Adderall anymore. I've used it to get ahead in software for the past ~8 years. I recently gave it up, but it was hard to realize that it was time. It might be time for you, too. The thing holding me back was fear. Fear I wasn't enough, that I couldn't be efficient. That I would get fired from my high position. Or even if I could m…

Do you actually have ADHD?

> I've used it to get ahead in software for the past ~8 years

No, you don't. At least not from how you are describing your use. You don't take this medication to get ahead. You take this medication to get to an even playing field. To get some control over your life.

So yes, if you are abusing drugs, don't. That's generally good advice.

Don't abuse drugs.

Re: Adderall Risks: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#63

Post by barrkel »

jasonlotito wrote: post #62
zschuessler wrote: post #51

If anyone here reading this needs the motivation or gentle reminder: you might not need Adderall anymore. I've used it to get ahead in software for the past ~8 years. I recently gave it up, but it was hard to realize that it was time. It might be time for you, too. The thing holding me back was fear. Fear I wasn't enough, that I couldn't be efficient. That I would get fired from my high position. Or even if I could m…

Do you actually have ADHD? > I've used it to get ahead in software for the past ~8 years No, you don't. At least not from how you are describing your use. You don't take this medication to get ahead. You take this medication to get to an even playing field. To get some control over your life. So yes, if you are abusing drugs, don't. That's generally good advice. Don't abuse drugs.

Did you read the article? This perspective is covered quite well, I think.

Re: Adderall Risks: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#64

Post by zschuessler »

jasonlotito wrote: post #62
zschuessler wrote: post #51

If anyone here reading this needs the motivation or gentle reminder: you might not need Adderall anymore. I've used it to get ahead in software for the past ~8 years. I recently gave it up, but it was hard to realize that it was time. It might be time for you, too. The thing holding me back was fear. Fear I wasn't enough, that I couldn't be efficient. That I would get fired from my high position. Or even if I could m…

Do you actually have ADHD? > I've used it to get ahead in software for the past ~8 years No, you don't. At least not from how you are describing your use. You don't take this medication to get ahead. You take this medication to get to an even playing field. To get some control over your life. So yes, if you are abusing drugs, don't. That's generally good advice. Don't abuse drugs.

I apologize my wording made it appear I was abusing drugs, I don't condone that. In fact I'm the opposite: I microdosed Adderall. 5mg a day for the longest time, then bumped up to 10mg. My doctors over the years pushed me to take more but I always said no. Instead I would take breaks and let tolerance die down before resuming.

I first got a prescription when I found I would rather spend 2-3 hours of my work day staring at a wall than work on a tedious task (literally, I did this). I was either hyper focused on a task and spent all day and night on it, or would rather be left with my thoughts.

I went home many days wondering what was wrong with me and waited every day to hear the news I was fired. I eventually went to a doctor around the age of 20 and he said, without a doubt, I have severe ADHD.

I have found other ways to cope with the condition. Many already shared in this very thread what has worked for me: no sugar, exercise, plenty of sleep, and a tinge of coffee. Even when on small doses of Adderall, if I had more than a handful of Oreos, I would have to go home because work is impossible. This actually happened! I know it's hard for people without ADHD to understand. It's not about willpower, it was an impossibility for me to work.

Re: Adderall Risks: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#65

Post by sigotirandolas »

astrange wrote: post #8

> There are occasional claims that magnesium or some other substance can help reverse Adderall tolerance. I went to a particularly expensive Silicon Valley psychiatrist who did of course immediately put me on Adderall, but also put me on NAC supplements to "avoid tolerance". It's been okay, they're cheap, never bothered not taking them to experiment. I can confirm feeling better after eating foods with magnesium, mos…

AFAIK the best evidence is for NMDA antagonists reversing tolerance. In fact magnesium is a a NMDA antagonist, but it a very weak one. I have read about people using memantine or something more potent to reverse tolerance, but I would be very wary about using potent NMDA antagonists regularly given what we know about them.

Re: Adderall Risks: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#66

Post by kazagistar »

bob_theslob646 wrote: post #35

Author does a decent job of going through some things, but this statement did not sit well with me. >I don’t think there are good data here, but my intuitions and personal experience is that “addiction” of the sort you get with heroin or tobacco is very rare, at least when responsible people without a personal or family history of addictive behavior take stimulants as prescribed. Most people agree the risk is lower f…

I have taken Adderalls twice in my life for longer periods of time, and both times it was no problem to stop. I stop taking it cold turkey, I feel a bit shitty for a week, and then its fine. If anything, it feels less addictive then caffine, which has worse physiological symptoms.

Re: Adderall Risks: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#67

Post by always_good »

balfirevic wrote: post #21
russellbeattie wrote: post #17

'Adderall doesn’t “cure” the “disease” of ADHD' This is completely wrong. It treats the symptoms of those of us with severe ADHD, and let's us do everyday things like sit in a theater or an airplane, or enjoy playing quietly with our little children. It's not just about being an office drone spending 12 hours a day in Excel or some cynical bullshit like that, it's about every day life.

I mean, I get that we are discussing ADHD here, but you could have at least read the next sentence: > Adderall doesn’t “cure” the “disease” of ADHD, at least not in the same way penicillin cures syphilis. Adderall will give everyone better concentration, and we’ve judged that it’s okay for people with terrible concentration to use it to overcome their handicap, but not okay for people with already-fine concentration…

>I mean, I get that we are discussing ADHD here, but you could have at least read the next sentence

Being condescending, especially towards people with a disorder, doesn't serve anything.

Worse, people with disorders have to deal with this stuff all the time from other people. "Hey Peter, haven't seen you in a few weeks. Were you being sad again? ;D"

It makes me cringe a bit to see that behavior here.

Re: Adderall Risks: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#68

Post by leesalminen »

mickronome wrote: post #37
akvadrako wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like an odd test. Of course everybody will score better on a concentration test while on medication for concentration.

Maybe everyone will score better, although I don't believe so because the tests are trivial for people without ADHD. In any case they certainly won't have anything like the kind of improvements people with ADHD has, improving from spectacularly bad to (usually) only slightly below normal. It's a common mistake made by both professionals and laypeople that ADHD is a condition with only slight deficiencies in focus, wh…

I’ve long held the belief that ADHD is wildly over diagnosed (in the US, at least).

Your anecdote has helped solidify this belief. 8/10 Adderall users I know are able to concentrate and complete complex, intricate tasks without the pills. The pills just put them in jet-speed mode.

It sounds like you truly have ADHD and are benefitting from proper medication. I wish nothing but the best for you.

However, I also wish the doctors would remove their heads from their ass and attempt to find a better method of diagnosis.

During my friend’s 3rd year of study at University, he realized many of his classmates were taking Adderall. Not only that, but those students had less trouble completing the crushing work load on time. So, he visited the local pill dispensing psychiatrist and walked out with his very own prescription.

Now we’re here, several years later, and he’s convinced that he really does have ADHD because the doctor keeps renewing his prescription. He chooses to forget that he initially got the prescription by regurgitating bullet points out of the DSM.

This is just one example. I’ve seen it countless times.

Is it really just me that thinks having oodles of young adults taking amphetamines daily is OK? I just can’t seem to wrap my head around it.

Re: Adderall Risks: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#69

Post by ianai »

garmaine wrote: post #48
ianai wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They want to measure the benefits of medication.

That’s missing the point. ADHD meds make everybody concentrate better, regardless of whether the person actually has ADHD.

And even that would give them a measure of the benefits. If it’s the same benefit that actual ADHD receives then it’s still a useful metric. If it’s less than the benefit when used for actual cases then, in aggregate, the benefits would be a low bar. Arguably that’s a better bias as it would make the benefits/costs decision more conservative. They’re taking the difference in measurements for each individual.

Re: Adderall Risks: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#70

Post by textor »

jasonlotito wrote: post #62
zschuessler wrote: post #51

If anyone here reading this needs the motivation or gentle reminder: you might not need Adderall anymore. I've used it to get ahead in software for the past ~8 years. I recently gave it up, but it was hard to realize that it was time. It might be time for you, too. The thing holding me back was fear. Fear I wasn't enough, that I couldn't be efficient. That I would get fired from my high position. Or even if I could m…

Do you actually have ADHD? > I've used it to get ahead in software for the past ~8 years No, you don't. At least not from how you are describing your use. You don't take this medication to get ahead. You take this medication to get to an even playing field. To get some control over your life. So yes, if you are abusing drugs, don't. That's generally good advice. Don't abuse drugs.

Life is not a playing field full of fun and games, even though you could frame it in terms of game theory. People want to be successful, not to evaluate their "innate" performance against other people. Moral justification for doping is unimportant, because it's arbitrary. In reality, however many competing actors make me miserably insecure by their superiority, whatever is their percentile relative to the general sample, I wish to win, I wish be more than what I am all the same.

Please read the article.

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