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Bitcoin Billionaires May Have Found a Way to Cash Out

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Re: Bitcoin Billionaires May Have Found a Way to Cash Out

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A coin that vanishes unpredictably would be the worst sort of money. Ironically, under Gresham's Law, such a currency would dominate other forms of money because everyone would be in such a hurry to exchange it for goods before it disappeared.

BTC can be divided into satoshis, which are extremely small units. If someone loses 1 BTC, the value of all the rest simply goes up.

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin Billionaires May Have Found a Way to Cash Out

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A coin that vanishes unpredictably would be the worst sort of money. Ironically, under Gresham's Law, such a currency would dominate other forms of money because everyone would be in such a hurry to exchange it for goods before it disappeared.

Gresham's Law technically applies to nonidentical versions of the same legal tender. That's not applicable to Bitcoin, because there is no material difference in the manufacture of individual Bitcoins, and nobody is forced to use or accept it. But to think this through, maybe there would be three components to the dynamics of such a theory. 1) Bitcoin will continue to vanish as holders die, forget about their bitcoin…

I think anyone panicked right now over the loss of their BTC because of a lost key, broken HDD, forgotten pwd, or the BTC just it isn't there anymore for reasons unknown-- those people will never feel secure holding BTC again in any form. The psychology of loss is powerful, and grown-ups just don't put their life savings in insecure stores of value.

The value of BTC is part scarcity and part network effect. In a rational world (what we usually get in the long term) disappearing BTC would have an impact on the network effect. Interestingly, Gresham's Law suggests it would be a positive effect. A likelihood that wealth will be destroyed at death-- I would think that would deter adoption.

Re: Bitcoin Billionaires May Have Found a Way to Cash Out

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A coin that vanishes unpredictably would be the worst sort of money. Ironically, under Gresham's Law, such a currency would dominate other forms of money because everyone would be in such a hurry to exchange it for goods before it disappeared.

Gresham's Law technically applies to nonidentical versions of the same legal tender. That's not applicable to Bitcoin, because there is no material difference in the manufacture of individual Bitcoins, and nobody is forced to use or accept it. But to think this through, maybe there would be three components to the dynamics of such a theory. 1) Bitcoin will continue to vanish as holders die, forget about their bitcoin…

> incapable of robustly facilitating a global amount of transactions without centralization in banks/hubs/wallets/exchanges

Banks/(3rd party) Wallets/(3rd party) exchanges is centralisation.

Lightning network hubs for example are not -and could scale much better, with less friction, than any transaction systems that we currently have. But plenty of things are going on, if it's not that it will be something else, it's only a matter of time.

Re: Bitcoin Billionaires May Have Found a Way to Cash Out

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gresham's Law technically applies to nonidentical versions of the same legal tender. That's not applicable to Bitcoin, because there is no material difference in the manufacture of individual Bitcoins, and nobody is forced to use or accept it. But to think this through, maybe there would be three components to the dynamics of such a theory. 1) Bitcoin will continue to vanish as holders die, forget about their bitcoin…

I think anyone panicked right now over the loss of their BTC because of a lost key, broken HDD, forgotten pwd, or the BTC just it isn't there anymore for reasons unknown-- those people will never feel secure holding BTC again in any form. The psychology of loss is powerful, and grown-ups just don't put their life savings in insecure stores of value. The value of BTC is part scarcity and part network effect. In a rati…

Funny that you mention that because people in many countries panic daily over the loss of their life savings in banks or government-backed hard currency. They have seen them vanish to a scale that can't even compare due to corruption, politics, incompetence, or reasons unknown.

The psychology of loss is powerful indeed

Re: Bitcoin Billionaires May Have Found a Way to Cash Out

#65
The talk of cryptocurrencies are on a so wrong place. What value have been created? Some people hoarded money and waited and became rich, is this news? Value system of society is so distorted. I understand the value when it is used as a means to exchange value but how this is now different than Ponzi scheme?

Re: Bitcoin Billionaires May Have Found a Way to Cash Out

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know the famous pizza for bitcoin story? The media always tells the story this way: Joe Person traded eg 10,000 bitcoins for some pizza, in what is believed to be the first commercial transaction. You know what they always miss in the story? Joe Person did that same deal several times, which you can see by reading the forum thread that still exists. Joe Person missed out on a billion dollars in Bitcoin value in e…

> what is believed to be the first commercial transaction. I'm pretty sure Alpaca socks were sold before that famous pizza.

How foreboding!

https://priceonomics.com/when-the-great-alpaca-bubble-burst/

(1) The asset not the product is the thing being marketed (i.e. live alpacas, not fiber)

(2) investors have unrealistic expectations (alpaca fiber would replace wool, despite the lack of infrastructure; and besides the fact that people don’t really wear that much wool)

(3) information is controlled through industry sources (most of the information the researchers were able to dig up was put out by breeding associations)

Re: Bitcoin Billionaires May Have Found a Way to Cash Out

#67
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're a billionaire you can just pay the fee to have your transaction in the next block. The network works perfectly for anyone willing to pay fees. Selling a billion on exchanges without excessive slippage would be difficult, but perhaps not impossible considering that the daily volume is above 16 billion right now. Certainly something in the 10-100 million range would be pretty easy.

Daily volume of $16b according to what? The ledger? If coinbase moves 10,000 bitcoins to a different wallet, you see that as a transaction. If I move all my Bitcoin from coinbase to a private wallet then back to coinbase, you would see those as separate transactions on the ledger as well. There is not $16b in daily liquidity in the BTC market right now. Moving money from one pocket to the other over and over all day…

No, I'm not talking about transactions on the blockchain. I'm talking about trading volume on exchanges. That $16B figure does sum up trading in all BTC currency pairs including altcoins. BTC/USD daily volume alone is around $2B. KRW, JPY and EUR also have significant volume. https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin

Re: Bitcoin Billionaires May Have Found a Way to Cash Out

#68
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're a billionaire you can just pay the fee to have your transaction in the next block. The network works perfectly for anyone willing to pay fees. Selling a billion on exchanges without excessive slippage would be difficult, but perhaps not impossible considering that the daily volume is above 16 billion right now. Certainly something in the 10-100 million range would be pretty easy.

Easy? Which exchange right now will let you sell millions of dollars at once? My coinbase account is aged, well used and verified. And I think I can't sell more than $10k a week.

Coinbase is not a true exchange. It's more of a broker. Their exchange offering is called GDAX, and it supports daily withdrawal limits in the tens of millions of dollars for verified users (possibly higher, I don't know an upper limit). The initial limits are lower, but if you have the money and aren't doing anything illegal you can simply request higher limits. Also, deposits and trades are completely unlimited, so you can sell a billion now and withdraw later over time.

Other exchanges with high USD volume include Bitstamp and Gemini. Bitfinex is also an option if you trust them and live outside the US (I don't).

Re: Bitcoin Billionaires May Have Found a Way to Cash Out

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BTC can be divided into satoshis, which are extremely small units. If someone loses 1 BTC, the value of all the rest simply goes up.

For those wondering, a satoshi is 1/100,000,000 of a bitcoin. At the current bitcoin price of $14591, a satoshi is worth $0.0001459190. The maximimum amount of minable bitcoins is 21 million. Current global gold supply is ~ $7 trillion If bitcoin completely replaces gold, bitcoins will be trading for about $333,333.33, so a satoshi would be worth ~$0.0033.

And if BTC reaches $33M, which is not impossible, that implies $0.33 is the smallest unit of currency.

People use quarters for mostly everything now, so this is again quite reasonable.

Re: Bitcoin Billionaires May Have Found a Way to Cash Out

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what is believed to be the first commercial transaction. I'm pretty sure Alpaca socks were sold before that famous pizza.

How foreboding! https://priceonomics.com/when-the-great-alpaca-bubble-burst/ (1) The asset not the product is the thing being marketed (i.e. live alpacas, not fiber) (2) investors have unrealistic expectations (alpaca fiber would replace wool, despite the lack of infrastructure; and besides the fact that people don’t really wear that much wool) (3) information is controlled through industry sources (most of the infor…

You and parent poster make for a wise conversation. The closing sentence — telltale signs of a speculative bubble — can be read for BTC, one to one. Brilliant!
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