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Twelve Days in Xinjiang: How China’s Surveillance State Overwhelms Daily Life

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Re: Twelve Days in Xinjiang: How China’s Surveillance State Overwhelms Daily Life

#61
I'd rather be watched by surveillance camera than killed by extremists.

How about you?

It is inevitable; before 911 there was almost no security check in airports. Boarding was not too much difference than shopping in Walmart.

This is one kind of insurance: most time accident is not happening, but when it happens it can be deadly.

Life consists of compromises. Some are unavoidable.

Re: Twelve Days in Xinjiang: How China’s Surveillance State Overwhelms Daily Life

#62
post #5

I think one of the few really, really good things we have left in the US is that I _feel_ that I am trusted to do the right thing. I was in Singapore, a rich, orderly state for an internship a couple of years ago. There were cameras everywhere: Cameras on the sidewalks, cameras on the staircases, cameras in residential apartments, cameras in the subway, cameras at the workplace. There were very few places I feel not…

I also live in the US. I think your feeling is just that.

Two of my neighbors have internet-connected surveillance cameras around their homes. There are cameras at most street lights. The police have cameras in their cars, including ones that scan license plates automatically.

I live near a school, which is festooned with cameras (and has a constant police presence, too, with their car and body cameras). The stores I shop at have cameras mounted everywhere, mostly behind shaded plastic globes so they're not obvious. (Small businesses tend to have fewer cameras, but still have them.) ATMs have cameras, as do gas stations. My workplace has cameras at entrances, elevators, stairwells and hallways.

And that's before we get into cellphones, Facebook and government surveillance, or the advertising- and data-mining-driven stalkerware that haunts you on the internet.

It is not that you are trusted to do the right thing. It's just that until you somehow gain the attention of some persons or powers with access to all that surveillance, they don't care what you do.

Re: Twelve Days in Xinjiang: How China’s Surveillance State Overwhelms Daily Life

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether your wallet or your privacy, you are being robbed regardless.

When someone sticks a gun in your face and demands your wallet, you will reconsider this equivocation.

Surveillance doesn't prevent that, however.

Re: Twelve Days in Xinjiang: How China’s Surveillance State Overwhelms Daily Life

#64
post #5

I think one of the few really, really good things we have left in the US is that I _feel_ that I am trusted to do the right thing. I was in Singapore, a rich, orderly state for an internship a couple of years ago. There were cameras everywhere: Cameras on the sidewalks, cameras on the staircases, cameras in residential apartments, cameras in the subway, cameras at the workplace. There were very few places I feel not…

I also live in the US. I think your feeling is just that. Two of my neighbors have internet-connected surveillance cameras around their homes. There are cameras at most street lights. The police have cameras in their cars, including ones that scan license plates automatically. I live near a school, which is festooned with cameras (and has a constant police presence, too, with their car and body cameras). The stores I…

Hm. I live in the US. Our police have no cameras. None on the streets, none around the vast majority of homes. None in the schools. Shops have fake ones behind plastic globes (that's why the globes are there; so you don't know that all but 1 or two by the door are fake). Businesses have none.

Re: Twelve Days in Xinjiang: How China’s Surveillance State Overwhelms Daily Life

#65

I'd rather be watched by surveillance camera than killed by extremists. How about you? It is inevitable; before 911 there was almost no security check in airports. Boarding was not too much difference than shopping in Walmart. This is one kind of insurance: most time accident is not happening, but when it happens it can be deadly. Life consists of compromises. Some are unavoidable.

Hah!

There's less people getting killed by extremists than people dying from tangling in their bed sheets (or something similar).

Not only is it a a bad trade. Camera's and surveillance don't stop well planned terrorists attacks. At a certain 'level' of terrorism, or any combative action in enemy territory, you operate under the assumption that you'll get caught and/or killed.

If you truly cared about the loss of life you'd be campaigning against the current speedlimit for cars, and the fact that there's no mandatory alcohol locks for starting your car.

Re: Twelve Days in Xinjiang: How China’s Surveillance State Overwhelms Daily Life

#66
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scared people are nearly the worst kinds of people you want making policy decisions. If you can establish statistical significance that no cameras -> cameras (actual causality, not mere correlation) causes a drop in (public) robery-related homicide, and a majority of people believe that drop to be significant enough to warrant the loss of privacy, then sure, you put up cameras. You don't do it because a few people go…

The reason to have citizens own guns is so the population can't be bullied by a totalitarian state, whether foreign or domestic. Guns democratize the use of violence. Sure, militaries can nuke cities, but only if they want to rule over a sheet of glass. Tanks and air superiority can win battles, but they can't stop the occupied population from assembling. To subjugate a populace, to keep them under your boot without…

I am 100% pro-gun and always will be. But we Americans are not winning the war against our freedom and owning guns is like 1% of that fight, however, most people you ask think they are free because they can own guns. WTF? The monster has grown up all around us. Technology will enslave us unless we make conscious decisions about not letting our lives be ruled by Skynet.

Re: Twelve Days in Xinjiang: How China’s Surveillance State Overwhelms Daily Life

#67
post #32

I have a friend who’s born in Xinjiang and she told me this kind of control goes far beyond just surveillance, physical control, ID checks and whatnot. In a very Orwellian way, it also extends to control of the mind. Schools, government agencies, and local companies have to have their students and employees routinely recite propaganda about “ethnic unity” and relevant official policies and conduct routine tests to ma…

America is much better about this sort of thing. Aside from a few obvious holdover examples like the Pledge of Allegiance and the national anthem, the US doesn't bother with such ham-handed, last century techniques.

It's much easier to just coerce the media and get the public to consume the propaganda as entertainment.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/aug/21/entertainment/la-ca-...

https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/exclusive-documents-...

Re: Twelve Days in Xinjiang: How China’s Surveillance State Overwhelms Daily Life

#68
I went to Urumqi about 10 years ago. It was nothing like this. It was actually an amazing place, full of diverse culture and awesome people.

In 2009, when these riots happened, I remember we lost complete contact with the factory there. The Chinese government simple cut all communication in and out of the region, till they had the situation under control.

Re: Twelve Days in Xinjiang: How China’s Surveillance State Overwhelms Daily Life

#69

I'd rather be watched by surveillance camera than killed by extremists. How about you? It is inevitable; before 911 there was almost no security check in airports. Boarding was not too much difference than shopping in Walmart. This is one kind of insurance: most time accident is not happening, but when it happens it can be deadly. Life consists of compromises. Some are unavoidable.

How many people killed by extremists in the US last year? Are you suggesting that US should increase their security to the same level as China (and implement a police state) to avoid more extremists death?
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