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The Bitcoin Whales: 1,000 People Who Own 40 Percent of the Market

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Re: The Bitcoin Whales: 1,000 People Who Own 40 Percent of the Market

#61

I really enjoy investing in cryptocurrencies. However, I have a lot of doubt this is going to make the world a more fair or better place. It's going to create a wealth gap like has never been seen in first world countries.

One of the biggest issues I have with cryptocurrencies is how elitist it really is.

If your currency needs multiple 'Explain it like I'm 5' posts, it really isn't for the masses; it's for the world's technocrats.

Re: The Bitcoin Whales: 1,000 People Who Own 40 Percent of the Market

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the dilemma. Nobody is forcing you to use bitcoin and it's still an incredibly small market in the grand scheme of things. The libertarian position is (generally) that government mandated fiat currency is a tool of state oppression. No such force exists when it comes to bitcoin, and if people are unhappy with the concentration of bitcoin in the hands of a small number of people, they are free to us…

What's the difference between a government manipulating a currency and a cabal of wealthy individuals manipulating a currency? Or is your problem mainly that businesses have to accept dollars?

It isn't illegal to circumvent the cabal by agreeing to use a different currency. The sole goal of currency is a common medium of exchange. If that common medium is being manipulated then the market will perceive that as damage and route around it.

Re: The Bitcoin Whales: 1,000 People Who Own 40 Percent of the Market

#63
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also since a large number of coins are lost the 40% number understates the size of the whales. Estimates are that 20% of coins are simply lost for good.

This is interesting but my understanding of blockchain is limited so: Aren't all transactions 'encoded' in the blockchain? If so why can't the coins be found? If not, what does the blockchain "record"?

Very small transaction outputs can't be used in practice because they're less than the required transaction fee.

Re: The Bitcoin Whales: 1,000 People Who Own 40 Percent of the Market

#64

It's interesting to see how this is playing out. Libertarians have long argued that government-issued fiat currency is a tool of state oppression. Now we have a real-world experiment demonstrating on a grand scale what happens when you create a currency by consensual fiat. I'd be interested to hear what libertarians think about this: Is Bitcoin truly the kind of currency libertarians have been advocating? Have I misc…

[deleted]

Re: The Bitcoin Whales: 1,000 People Who Own 40 Percent of the Market

#65
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also since a large number of coins are lost the 40% number understates the size of the whales. Estimates are that 20% of coins are simply lost for good.

This is interesting but my understanding of blockchain is limited so: Aren't all transactions 'encoded' in the blockchain? If so why can't the coins be found? If not, what does the blockchain "record"?

If the private keys corresponding to the coins are lost then the coins are, for all intents and purposes, lost. They can't be sold, moved around, etc.

Re: The Bitcoin Whales: 1,000 People Who Own 40 Percent of the Market

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this time it's voluntarily. Anybody can get it at any time. I've been telling my friends and family since 2012, and only one of them invested. Those who take risks, get rewarded. You can't win if you refuse to try. Of course, there are truly poor people out there who can't have a dollar to spare, but it's mostly due to geography, corruption or war, not evil capitalists.

> But this time it's voluntarily Gambling's rarely been mandatory. If you were going to recommend your folks to have a punt, wouldn't a casino be better? You know the odds then.

No, casinos have the edge, it's almost never mathematically sane to engage with a casino.

I considered what would happen if something like bitcoin would become a global internet currency, and any way I sliced it, the upside was too huge not to try.

Re: The Bitcoin Whales: 1,000 People Who Own 40 Percent of the Market

#67
post #4

>Holders of large amounts of bitcoin are often known as whales. And they’re becoming a worry for investors. They can send prices plummeting by selling even a portion of their holdings. That's not indicative of something that's a store of value.

This can also happen to other things that are commonly seen as stores of value. For example, around 1300 Mansa Musa [1] gifted so much gold that he single-handedly crashed its price:

"But Musa's generous actions inadvertently devastated the economies of the regions through which he passed. In the cities of Cairo, Medina, and Mecca, the sudden influx of gold devalued the metal for the next decade. Prices on goods and wares greatly inflated. To rectify the gold market, on his way back from Mecca, Musa borrowed all the gold he could carry from money-lenders in Cairo, at high interest. This is the only time recorded in history that one man directly controlled the price of gold in the Mediterranean."

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musa_I_of_Mali

Re: The Bitcoin Whales: 1,000 People Who Own 40 Percent of the Market

#68
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the difference between a government manipulating a currency and a cabal of wealthy individuals manipulating a currency? Or is your problem mainly that businesses have to accept dollars?

It isn't illegal to circumvent the cabal by agreeing to use a different currency. The sole goal of currency is a common medium of exchange. If that common medium is being manipulated then the market will perceive that as damage and route around it.

>If that common medium is being manipulated then the market will perceive that as damage and route around it.

Isn't that basically the problem with bitcoin though? We can't perceive if it's being manipulated or not.

E: Actually that brings up another issue for me. Wouldn't that just be a run on the currency? So the last people to get out of manipu-coins are the ones stuck holding the bag?

Re: The Bitcoin Whales: 1,000 People Who Own 40 Percent of the Market

#69

It's interesting to see how this is playing out. Libertarians have long argued that government-issued fiat currency is a tool of state oppression. Now we have a real-world experiment demonstrating on a grand scale what happens when you create a currency by consensual fiat. I'd be interested to hear what libertarians think about this: Is Bitcoin truly the kind of currency libertarians have been advocating? Have I misc…

I'm no libertarian, but wouldn't the fact that you can buy bitcoins with traditional fiat currency throw a wrench in this being a valid experiment?

Since anyone that received an "unfair advantage" with government-issued fiat can turn around and use it to get an unfair advantage in bitcoin as well?

Re: The Bitcoin Whales: 1,000 People Who Own 40 Percent of the Market

#70

It's interesting to see how this is playing out. Libertarians have long argued that government-issued fiat currency is a tool of state oppression. Now we have a real-world experiment demonstrating on a grand scale what happens when you create a currency by consensual fiat. I'd be interested to hear what libertarians think about this: Is Bitcoin truly the kind of currency libertarians have been advocating? Have I misc…

It'll be interesting to see what happens when a few people own 90% of the bitcoin and everyone else just sort of shrugs and starts using a new cryptocurrency, instead.

This is what I don't understand. In the hypothetical case where we switch to using bitcoin won't early adopters be the only people with money? What about the 99.9(9?)% of the population who don't own any bitcoins?
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