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US Senate Bill S.1241 to Criminalize Concealed Ownership of Bitcoin

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Re: US Senate Bill S.1241 to Criminalize Concealed Ownership of Bitcoin

#61

Post by mirimir »

lordCarbonFiber wrote: post #30
mirimir wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, bank secrecy is as dead as governments can make it, for obvious reasons. However, for cryptocurrencies, it's mainly exchange interfaces with meatspace currencies that are hard to keep private. If you use local wallets like Electrum, transact via Tor, mix thoroughly, and generally practice good OPSEC, your personas and their cryptocurrency can be as anonymous as you like. But only as long as you maintain compart…

So long as you never use your currency to buy anything you've got a great anonymous currency. Sounds very useful.

You must compartmentalize. You can buy and sell anything that isn't linkable to your meatspace identity. With enough virtual wealth to hire the right consultants, you could probably retire comfortably somewhere.

Re: US Senate Bill S.1241 to Criminalize Concealed Ownership of Bitcoin

#62

Post by mirimir »

X86BSD wrote: post #55
mirimir wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, bank secrecy is as dead as governments can make it, for obvious reasons. However, for cryptocurrencies, it's mainly exchange interfaces with meatspace currencies that are hard to keep private. If you use local wallets like Electrum, transact via Tor, mix thoroughly, and generally practice good OPSEC, your personas and their cryptocurrency can be as anonymous as you like. But only as long as you maintain compart…

Or you could just, use a secure anonymous coin like say monero and forget all this time consuming effort to try and anonymous a non anonymous coin.

Once Monero is accepted more widely, sure.

Re: US Senate Bill S.1241 to Criminalize Concealed Ownership of Bitcoin

#65

Post by drcode »

grandalf wrote: post #48

Uh, it says intentionally concealing , not owning. Income from investments is supposed to be reported to the IRS. It’s silly that anyone would expect crypto currencies to be an exception. This would be one of the few cases when the title should be updated.

> Income from investments is supposed to be reported to the IRS.

Bitcoin income has required disclosure since 2013, this bill seems to say that even bitcoin just sitting idle in an account need to be disclosed somehow, which is a MAJOR breach of privacy. This is like saying to someone "If you own a nice painting in your house you need to let us know about it" even if it generates no income.

They are basically saying "if you value your privacy you are a criminal, even if you aren't breaking any other laws" which should scare everyone.

Re: US Senate Bill S.1241 to Criminalize Concealed Ownership of Bitcoin

#66

Post by moduspol »

DennisP wrote: post #50

The text doesn't sound so much to me like it's criminalizing intentionally concealed ownership of cryptocurrency, as ownership of accounts at exchanges...say, by signing up for an exchange with a fake ID.

This link gives a little more background:

https://news.bitcoin.com/proposed-u-s-legislation-may-crimin...

> A ‘prepaid access device’ means an electronic device or vehicle, such as a card, plate, code, number, electronic serial number, mobile identification number, personal identification number, or other instrument, that provides a portal to funds or the value of funds that have been paid in advance and can be retrievable and transferable at some point in the future.

To me that seems pretty clear they're targeting cryptocurrencies held outside of exchanges.

Re: US Senate Bill S.1241 to Criminalize Concealed Ownership of Bitcoin

#67

Post by em3rgent0rdr »

DennisP wrote: post #50

The text doesn't sound so much to me like it's criminalizing intentionally concealed ownership of cryptocurrency, as ownership of accounts at exchanges...say, by signing up for an exchange with a fake ID.

Your private bitcoin wallet (even in your home) is your bank.

Re: US Senate Bill S.1241 to Criminalize Concealed Ownership of Bitcoin

#68

Post by ransom1538 »

General question. Currently money laundering is illegal (concealing money gained from unlawful activity) [i] and the IRS already asks you specifically if you own assets [digital currency] [ii], so i am honestly curious what this would change. If you own bitcoin and are not disclosing this to the government [irs] of such assets you are already breaking federal law. This just adds charges? Or does this help fund the feds to form task forces? Lawyers I have consulted mention trusts to legally hide assets [iii]. help.

[i] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1956 [ii] https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-virtual-currency-guidance [iii] https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB912140808262492000

Re: US Senate Bill S.1241 to Criminalize Concealed Ownership of Bitcoin

#69

Post by StanislavPetrov »

adventured wrote: post #25
jgh wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh did you notice that huge tax cut they just gave the ultra-rich? They gotta start digging through the couch to pay for it ;)

The US has the most progressive taxation system among all developed nations. Nothing about that fundamental progressiveness has changed due to the tax cuts. The top 20% are paying 95% of all income taxes, that will continue. For example, the US is radically more progressive on taxation than all of Scandinavia: https://taxfoundation.org/how-scandinavian-countries-pay-the...

>The top 20% are paying 95% of all income taxes, that will continue.

You are comparing population with taxes, when you should be comparing wealth to taxes. Of course people in poverty with no tangible income or net worth don't pay income taxes. The wealthy in the US pay far, far less in taxes as a percentage of their wealth than any other developed nation in the world. In addition, the taxes paid by people in all civilized developed nations pay (either in part or in whole) for healthcare and education instead of bankrupting working citizens for basic needs. Working people in the United States pay far more in taxes and receive far less than any other developed nation - but at least we have our wars.

Re: US Senate Bill S.1241 to Criminalize Concealed Ownership of Bitcoin

#70

Post by ben_w »

mirimir wrote: post #61
lordCarbonFiber wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So long as you never use your currency to buy anything you've got a great anonymous currency. Sounds very useful.

You must compartmentalize. You can buy and sell anything that isn't linkable to your meatspace identity. With enough virtual wealth to hire the right consultants, you could probably retire comfortably somewhere.

I doubt you could retire. Creating a justification for why your meatspace identity now has money from an anonymous source without tying those identities together is money laundering.
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