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A Pentagon-funded contest spawned many of today’s self-driving startups

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Re: A Pentagon-funded contest spawned many of today’s self-driving startups

#61

Post by JumpCrisscross »

vlehto wrote: post #58
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The technologies that will be developed in #2 will be absolutely, unquestionably used by governments to repress their own people One can go to the dawn of self-driving cars, the Internet, really any potentially game-changing technology, and throw this out. It's an inconsequential assertion that provokes no follow-on thought. Just emotion. Graduating this seed from FUD to a chain of critical thought involves asking…

Anything that increases the destructive capacity of armed forces while lowering the manpower requirements is going to make it easier for politicians to misuse those armed forces. Most obvious example would be the Vietnam disaster. It was eventually shut down because of "bring our boys home". Not because of international reputation, human rights violations or the capability to win or lose the war. Another example woul…

> Anything that increases the destructive capacity of armed forces while lowering the manpower requirements is going to make it easier for politicians to misuse those armed forces

Anything that (a) improves peoples' lives and (b) has a logistical dependency, e.g. requires or becomes better with electricity, an Internet connection, package delivery, et cetera, improves the standing of a centralized power. This will be true as long as those logistical dependencies are subject to economies of scale.

Leaving society in the 18th century, before electricity, antibiotics or daily disposable contact lenses, wasn't easy. But you'd have to give up fewer luxuries to do that then that you would today because there are more luxuries today.

This is why saying "this will be used for evil things that centralized powers do" is so inane. It's a corollary of economic progress.

Re: A Pentagon-funded contest spawned many of today’s self-driving startups

#62

Post by ChuckMcM »

matt4077 wrote: post #52
ChuckMcM wrote: post #24

It certainly seems to validate the strategy of "grand challenges" to focus research. One could argue that the X prize helped spawn today's commercial space companies. So does this mean a good way for benevolent billionaires to improve the world would be to sponsor things like this? Certainly Gate's sponsoring the toilets prize was influential in bringing out better sanitation ideas. I wonder if anyone would sponsor a…

You might enjoy the "tiny house" idea that's been trending for a while: https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=tiny+house There are also various initiatives and competitions in the "sustainable living" space that fit the bill, such as https://www.solardecathlon.gov

I do really enjoy the ideas that have come out of the tiny house theme. I don't like the politics it brings out[1]. One of the on going issues is sanitation (Bill Gate's efforts not withstanding), can you provide sanitation in a reliable and difficult to screw up way?

In my notebook I sketched out a possible windmill / pump idea that would pump water to a reservoir which, when full would 'flush' for all of the commodes it served. Challenges are odors and blockages, and a reliable sluice system.

And what would it be like if you let people cook with fire in their space? (lots of small spaces in Brazil and India with simple three stone type cookfires. Is it possible to accommodate something like that without creating an undue fire risk?

[1] http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/08/28/san-jose-proposes-just...

Re: A Pentagon-funded contest spawned many of today’s self-driving startups

#63

Post by imcrs »

hnaccy wrote: post #54
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The technologies that will be developed in #2 will be absolutely, unquestionably used by governments to repress their own people One can go to the dawn of self-driving cars, the Internet, really any potentially game-changing technology, and throw this out. It's an inconsequential assertion that provokes no follow-on thought. Just emotion. Graduating this seed from FUD to a chain of critical thought involves asking…

Anyone who thinks deeply on the ramifications of the computer and related technology should come to the conclusion that they will inevitably lead to the destruction of individual liberty and total subjugation or annihilation of a significant portion of humanity. This is not gunpowder, the printing press, or the cotton gin and to compare them you're either naive or being disingenuous. There is little hope for us to de…

What is the solution? I would rather have automated drone armies in the hands of the US government than anyone else.

The same could be said of the atomic bomb. A weapon made purely for mass scale indiscriminate destruction of humanity. But if not us, then who would we trust to develop such a technology?

Re: A Pentagon-funded contest spawned many of today’s self-driving startups

#64

Post by hnaccy »

imcrs wrote: post #63
hnaccy wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who thinks deeply on the ramifications of the computer and related technology should come to the conclusion that they will inevitably lead to the destruction of individual liberty and total subjugation or annihilation of a significant portion of humanity. This is not gunpowder, the printing press, or the cotton gin and to compare them you're either naive or being disingenuous. There is little hope for us to de…

What is the solution? I would rather have automated drone armies in the hands of the US government than anyone else. The same could be said of the atomic bomb. A weapon made purely for mass scale indiscriminate destruction of humanity. But if not us, then who would we trust to develop such a technology?

There isn't one.

The atomic bomb is a blunt instrument with no finesse. The ability to vaporize large groups of people in a flashy infrastructure destroying display is not particularly conducive to control.

Atomic bombs don't let you watch, record, and analyze the movements of millions of people. They don't let you record and analyze the personal lives, conversations, and secrets of millions of people. They don't eliminate the need for human labor.

Re: A Pentagon-funded contest spawned many of today’s self-driving startups

#65

Post by t420mom »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #62
matt4077 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might enjoy the "tiny house" idea that's been trending for a while: https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=tiny+house There are also various initiatives and competitions in the "sustainable living" space that fit the bill, such as https://www.solardecathlon.gov

I do really enjoy the ideas that have come out of the tiny house theme. I don't like the politics it brings out[1]. One of the on going issues is sanitation (Bill Gate's efforts not withstanding), can you provide sanitation in a reliable and difficult to screw up way? In my notebook I sketched out a possible windmill / pump idea that would pump water to a reservoir which, when full would 'flush' for all of the commod…

There's the BioLite stoves: https://www.bioliteenergy.com/products/basecamp

They are high-efficiency, low-smoke wood stoves and the company actually tries to make a difference to people that rely on fire for cooking: https://www.bioliteenergy.com/pages/mission

I've had the camp stove for a couple of years and it works really well. I wouldn't recommend using it indoors (the monoxide risk if nothing else), but it definitely fits in with the off-grid movement.

Re: A Pentagon-funded contest spawned many of today’s self-driving startups

#66

Post by smithmayowa »

imcrs wrote: post #63
hnaccy wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who thinks deeply on the ramifications of the computer and related technology should come to the conclusion that they will inevitably lead to the destruction of individual liberty and total subjugation or annihilation of a significant portion of humanity. This is not gunpowder, the printing press, or the cotton gin and to compare them you're either naive or being disingenuous. There is little hope for us to de…

What is the solution? I would rather have automated drone armies in the hands of the US government than anyone else. The same could be said of the atomic bomb. A weapon made purely for mass scale indiscriminate destruction of humanity. But if not us, then who would we trust to develop such a technology?

Permit my inquiry but whenever i see comments like this, I can't help but think that your main reason for believing in this train of thought is majorly because the negative effects of U.s military industrial complex has pretty much never affected you. because if you were perhaps an Arab who watched his/her home town bombed to shit by a us drone and had the us write off the human casualties that resulted there in from this act as collateral damage you most likely will not feel this way about a single country trying to amass absolute power, particularly when it is a specific country that seem to have a very itchy war finger, which also just elected a very racist man as president.

If the table were turned will you still feel this way, i wonder.

And p.s i am not an Arab, I am African so yes i do sympathize somewhat with what they go through. I also do not hate the U.S but i do feel it that it was time the rest of the world closed the military and technological gap the U.S and the west really had over the rest of the world as this will stop a lot of their bullshit.

Re: A Pentagon-funded contest spawned many of today’s self-driving startups

#67

Post by pretendscholar »

imcrs wrote: post #63
hnaccy wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who thinks deeply on the ramifications of the computer and related technology should come to the conclusion that they will inevitably lead to the destruction of individual liberty and total subjugation or annihilation of a significant portion of humanity. This is not gunpowder, the printing press, or the cotton gin and to compare them you're either naive or being disingenuous. There is little hope for us to de…

What is the solution? I would rather have automated drone armies in the hands of the US government than anyone else. The same could be said of the atomic bomb. A weapon made purely for mass scale indiscriminate destruction of humanity. But if not us, then who would we trust to develop such a technology?

"What is the solution? I would rather have automated drone armies in the hands of the US government than anyone else"

Wow

Re: A Pentagon-funded contest spawned many of today’s self-driving startups

#68

Post by hbvvvbgvv »

EGreg wrote: post #53
aresant wrote: post #28

Keeping up with Darpa's challenges is a good way to see into the future a couple of their current projects: 1) A machine-learning competition to overcome scarcity in the radio frequency which is INSANELY fascinating and, if they pull it off, hugely impactful -> https://spectrumcollaborationchallenge.com 2) A program to build technology to drive “swarm sprint” exercises to inform tactics and technologies for large gro…

Anyone here in NYC that wants to meet up? Any cool hacket events here?

Have you considered getting a life instead of soliciting one from strangers on the Internet?

Re: A Pentagon-funded contest spawned many of today’s self-driving startups

#69

Post by imcrs »

smithmayowa wrote: post #66
imcrs wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the solution? I would rather have automated drone armies in the hands of the US government than anyone else. The same could be said of the atomic bomb. A weapon made purely for mass scale indiscriminate destruction of humanity. But if not us, then who would we trust to develop such a technology?

Permit my inquiry but whenever i see comments like this, I can't help but think that your main reason for believing in this train of thought is majorly because the negative effects of U.s military industrial complex has pretty much never affected you. because if you were perhaps an Arab who watched his/her home town bombed to shit by a us drone and had the us write off the human casualties that resulted there in from…

I am American, and I hear this from Americans all the time. The reality is far different, though. Does the Russian military perform more humanely in war than the US military? I don't think so. Would the Chinese? Things like My Lai and Abu Ghraib are the exception with the US military, not the rule.

I obviously don't want any single powerful entity to have access to this technology, but I can see the reality of it, which is that someone will have it. Who will it be?

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