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ESPN Can’t Afford Monday Night Football Any More

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Re: ESPN Can’t Afford Monday Night Football Any More

#61

Post by protomyth »

vestermark wrote: post #30
zeveb wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Someone has got to air the games. Does someone? Sure, professional football has been very popular for many decades, but there's nothing about the order of the universe which states that it will remain so forever. We don't have chariot races, or gladiators, or bear-baiting — maybe someday we won't have professional football either.

The NFL's life expectancy is now less than 20 years. Young people aren't playing the game, because their parents don't want their brains to get all smashed up. Active participation in tackle football among teenagers fell from 9% to 7% in just 5 years from 2011-2016. The talent pool will dry up. The game will be less interesting. The fan base will die off.

I don't think playing the game is very important in the US. If playing the game as a youth affected your viewing habits as an adult then soccer should be the most popular sport in the US. Basketball should far eclipse football. As long as they have enough younger players to sustain they should be fine.

Its more about the availability of gladiators than the sports history of people in the stands.

Re: ESPN Can’t Afford Monday Night Football Any More

#62

Post by brian-armstrong »

ZoeZoeBee wrote: post #46
brian-armstrong wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always a little shocked when people admit outrage over kneeling players but don't seem at all concerned that the sport endangers the players' wellbeing. What do you think contributes to this empathy gap?

It might have something to do with the fact that only 6% of Police Shootings involved an unarmed individual, and every year more white people are killed by police than African Americans. People would be more empathetic to the players supposed grievance if statistics backed them up https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shoo...

This doesn't actually address my question. Kneeling, right or wrong, is a small expression of speech. CTEs endanger all players. The priorities here should be apparent.

Re: ESPN Can’t Afford Monday Night Football Any More

#63

Post by DamnYuppie »

WillyOnWheels wrote: post #59
ZoeZoeBee wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here we have a glaring example of the issue. You use feelings instead of data to make your point, the problem is your anecdotal assertions are not backed up by reality. 90% of those killed by police were armed. So far this year 15 African Americans have been killed while unarmed to 21 White Americans and the numbers are similar for the previous years where data is available https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/nat…

It's about ratios. There are about 220 million White Americans. Your data claims 392 White Americans have been killed police in 2017 so far. There are about 35 million Black Americans. Your data claims 190 Black Americans have been killed by police in 2017 so far. If Black Americans were killed by police hypothetically at the same rate as White Americans, 62 Black Americans would be dead. Do you see the huge disparit…

What you analysis fails to factor in is the number of crimes committed by each. In that regard blacks commit far more crimes then whites.

Re: ESPN Can’t Afford Monday Night Football Any More

#64

Post by exelius »

DamnYuppie wrote: post #51
exelius wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say you take the NFL's revenue and it drops by 90% (as I think it will relatively quickly once "TV" ad rates start to come in line with online video -- oh yes, all these issues are related). So the salary range would have to shift to say, $2-3M a year for the top stars and about $200,000 for vets; with rookies making $50k-ish. Sure there would be endorsements, but it wouldn't be the ubiquitous stardom. You're j…

I don't disagree with your assessment on the impact of a reduction in ad spend. Yet I don't agree that how much a player makes impacts the popularity of football. All you have to do is look at college football where the overwhelming majority of athletes are just getting a scholarship. Most fans support a jersey not the person in it.

I think interest in football is waning because the sport is a lot less fun to watch now that we know those bone-crushing hits actually leave guys debilitated for life. And not just in the long-term; Aaron Hernandez should be a wake-up call for the risks of CTE among active players. A broken leg from a sport is one thing, but widespread (something like 95% of former players show signs of CTE) traumatic brain injury is another.

It's just not right to encourage people to do that, and I think a lot of fans are choosing to watch something else.

Edit: Also, basketball has better economics and a more international fan base, so it's probably safe. Baseball is probably fucked too, at least in the current incarnation of MLB. But the NFL is definitely fucked.

Re: ESPN Can’t Afford Monday Night Football Any More

#65

Post by dragonwriter »

DamnYuppie wrote: post #51
exelius wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say you take the NFL's revenue and it drops by 90% (as I think it will relatively quickly once "TV" ad rates start to come in line with online video -- oh yes, all these issues are related). So the salary range would have to shift to say, $2-3M a year for the top stars and about $200,000 for vets; with rookies making $50k-ish. Sure there would be endorsements, but it wouldn't be the ubiquitous stardom. You're j…

I don't disagree with your assessment on the impact of a reduction in ad spend. Yet I don't agree that how much a player makes impacts the popularity of football. All you have to do is look at college football where the overwhelming majority of athletes are just getting a scholarship. Most fans support a jersey not the person in it.

How much players make influence whether people aspire to be players at all; a tangible decline in quality of play will hurt the sport.

Also, if the funnel of advertising (and thus TV) money goes away, the visibility of the sport will drop, and visibility reinforces popularity.

Re: ESPN Can’t Afford Monday Night Football Any More

#66

Post by JuanaMango »

WillyOnWheels wrote: post #59
ZoeZoeBee wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here we have a glaring example of the issue. You use feelings instead of data to make your point, the problem is your anecdotal assertions are not backed up by reality. 90% of those killed by police were armed. So far this year 15 African Americans have been killed while unarmed to 21 White Americans and the numbers are similar for the previous years where data is available https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/nat…

It's about ratios. There are about 220 million White Americans. Your data claims 392 White Americans have been killed police in 2017 so far. There are about 35 million Black Americans. Your data claims 190 Black Americans have been killed by police in 2017 so far. If Black Americans were killed by police hypothetically at the same rate as White Americans, 62 Black Americans would be dead. Do you see the huge disparit…

Ratios eh?

If over 90% of people killed by cops were armed, and the majority of those killed were during the commission of a crime one might come to the conclusion that armed commission of crimes is the leading cause of death by cop.

Blacks commit murder at a ratio of 8 times that as white people. If anything black people are statistically under represented in police homicides

Re: ESPN Can’t Afford Monday Night Football Any More

#67

Post by Mountain_Skies »

electricEmu wrote: post #55
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of NFL tickets are sold before the start of the season so teams are still claiming sellouts, which while technically correct, gives an impression that isn't reflected in actual people in the seats. I'm not sure how the NFL counts attendance but in NCAA football each school decides on what methodology to use. Some don't count hotdog vendors, some count every person inside the stadium, some just estim…

> It wouldn't surprise me if some pro teams massaged their numbers to appear larger than the actual number of fans who show up. Without any substantiating evidence the opposite wouldn't surprise me either. Please provide backing evidence that demonstrates the counts are maliciously inflated, at an increased rate, which masks lower turnout.

I have no evidence that if wouldn't surprise me other than actually writing out that it wouldn't surprise me. You'll simply have to take my word that I wouldn't be surprised.

Re: ESPN Can’t Afford Monday Night Football Any More

#68

Post by DrScump »

judah wrote: post #37
sunsetMurk wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

curious - are there any reports/#'s out there that indicate attendance is lower than normal? +correlation w/ kneeling players?

You can look at the raw stats yourself here[0]. I did some quick calculation here, and it looks like attendance is not lower, in fact, it's slightly higher. 2016 average attendance was 66,586, while this year's average attendance so far is 68,925. (This doesn't account for lower-attended games towards the end of the season for poor-performing teams; end of the season games often don't sell out for such teams, and the…

Those official attendance figures count tickets issued, not how many fans actually go through the turnstiles. (Teams refuse to release those counts to the public).

You can see massive amounts of empty seats in 4 or 5 NFL stadiums right now. Some cities have extremely loyal fan bases regardless of record (e.g. Green Bay, Pittsburgh), but you can see many seats going completely unsold in Levi's Stadium (49ers).

In fact, Pittsburgh was the reference standard that the 49ers (for one) used as a comparison in selling licenses for their building ("see how WELL those licenses are selling! Don't miss out!").

Re: ESPN Can’t Afford Monday Night Football Any More

#69

Post by JuanaMango »

brian-armstrong wrote: post #62
ZoeZoeBee wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might have something to do with the fact that only 6% of Police Shootings involved an unarmed individual, and every year more white people are killed by police than African Americans. People would be more empathetic to the players supposed grievance if statistics backed them up https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shoo...

This doesn't actually address my question. Kneeling, right or wrong, is a small expression of speech. CTEs endanger all players. The priorities here should be apparent.

But the players aren't kneeling for CTE, they're kneeling for a supposed grievance which is not reflected in statistical reality. I don't think anyone understands your question, it's more like an uniformed statement with a question mark at the end

Re: ESPN Can’t Afford Monday Night Football Any More

#70

Post by u801e »

exelius wrote: post #64
DamnYuppie wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with your assessment on the impact of a reduction in ad spend. Yet I don't agree that how much a player makes impacts the popularity of football. All you have to do is look at college football where the overwhelming majority of athletes are just getting a scholarship. Most fans support a jersey not the person in it.

I think interest in football is waning because the sport is a lot less fun to watch now that we know those bone-crushing hits actually leave guys debilitated for life. And not just in the long-term; Aaron Hernandez should be a wake-up call for the risks of CTE among active players. A broken leg from a sport is one thing, but widespread (something like 95% of former players show signs of CTE) traumatic brain injury is…

> but widespread (something like 95% of former players show signs of CTE) traumatic brain injury is another.

Has the popularity of boxing been impacted by this issue?

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