Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild • Hacker News Board

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#61

Post by YZF » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 6:22 PM UTC

b5 wrote: post #34

atom-morgan wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to help a friend give a cat a bath once. It literally turned into a cylinder of pure muscle that I could barely control. Plenty of scratches and blood.

Even well cared for, domestic, gentle-natured cats can turn quite vicious when they don't want something to happen to them. We run that gauntlet every three weeks or so when our two needs their claws trimmed.

You just have to sit on them ... At least that worked for us ;) Our cat just yielded (protesting but not fighting) in this position. I'm sure you're aware but make sure you're just trimming the dead nail part.

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#62

Post by OSButler » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 6:36 PM UTC

acdanger wrote: post #36

kolanos wrote: post #33

Alaskan Malamutes are apparently more closely related to wolves than domesticated dogs. I used to breed them, and while they're beautiful animals, I wouldn't recommend them as a pet. Unless you have a sled that needs pulling, that is. I've since moved on to Rottweilers and have a new found appreciation for domesticated dogs. A malamute, especially in the presence of other malamutes, will always see you as an "other".…

I made the mistake of getting a Malamute puppy, sight-unseen, from a breeder who dropped him off one December day. The first year was fine. It was an incredibly handsome dog and a good companion on hikes. Sometime during the second year his independent nature became more and more pronounced. He also began to be more assertive around other dogs, sometimes even treating them as prey (it attacked one of my parents small…

My parents got a Malamute puppy and he could be left unleashed without any issues until he was about 1.5 - 2 years old. Then the instincts kicked in and he would hunt after anything that moved, so that they had to start using a leash to prevent him from running off all the time.

At the time they lived in the country and had a hiking area directly behind the house. My father would just put a leash on the dog and then let him lead the way around the mountain. He mentioned that it felt like a good experience for both of them, since he managed to see new parts of the mountain, due to the dog guiding him off the trail every now and then, and the dog was happy to lead. However, things went a bit south after my father had to leave for several months and it was my mother's turn to look after the dog. He would just pull her behind him like a sled and she had no control whatsoever over the dog.

Eventually, she went to a dog trainer with him, which improved things significantly, so that she was at least able to walk the dog without being dragged behind him. However, everything went out the window as soon as he smelled some kind of dead animal, or when he saw a deer or porcupine. Nevertheless, there were no major incidents with the dog, apart from some growling when you were trying to get him off an animal carcass.

It was definitely a much more difficult dog to handle compared to other domesticated breeds I've had or met so far, but at the same time he provided some of the most unique experiences I've had with a dog whenever you would hike with him through the mountains.

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#63

Post by elboru » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 6:40 PM UTC

kolanos wrote: post #33

Alaskan Malamutes are apparently more closely related to wolves than domesticated dogs. I used to breed them, and while they're beautiful animals, I wouldn't recommend them as a pet. Unless you have a sled that needs pulling, that is. I've since moved on to Rottweilers and have a new found appreciation for domesticated dogs. A malamute, especially in the presence of other malamutes, will always see you as an "other".…

Do you know if German Shepherd share this closeness to wolves? I've met some really well behaved GS, but then I've met others with more wild like behaviors.

I used to own a beautiful GS, the first year he was like any other dog, he was really intelligent, playful, obedient.

I used to train him every day, so I was shocked when he started to misbehave, he wouldn't listen to other family members other than me, he would even growl at them. When I arrived home he would get exited, but instead of coming near for me to pet him, he would go around the yard, over and over. It came to a point where it was dangerous to have him around the family, so I had to took him to a shelter, that was really sad. I used to think a well trained dog will never be a problem, maybe he needed a more specialized training program.

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#64

Post by arkades » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 6:45 PM UTC

learnstats2 wrote: post #42

bambax wrote: post #6

> something is deeply different in dog genes, or in how and when those genes become active, and scientists are trying to determine exactly what it is Darwin famously observed in the first chapter of On the Origin of Species that not one of our domestic animals can be named which has not in some country drooping ears . Darwin himself attributed it to "muscle misuse", the rationale being that domestic animals are not f…

It seems more likely to me that this has a human psychological cause, not a genetic cause. I suggest that - if humans associate e.g. droopy ears with being more friendly, this creates a positive feedback loop whereby those animals with droopy ears receive more positive interactions, show less fear and are modestly more likely to be selected by Belyaev's research for breeding, all other things being equal. Human bias…

They're also dealing with a genetic bottleneck. As they repeatedly select for a given trait, they can inadvertently select for traits that are correlated /in their original sample population/, which may not be correlated universally.

That is, with a small enough sample, if it just so happened the nicest cubs had (some traits) in common, you can easily end up exaggerating those traits in later generations.

The Russian study is heavily inbred. They only ever had a maximum of 2000 foxes - now bred for a few dozen generations.

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#65

Post by refurb » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 6:55 PM UTC

nthompson wrote: post #57

When wolves got reintroduced to Idaho, a few hillbillies went up into the primitive area and stole some pups, and they circulated around as pets. My buddy had one, and it scared the shit out of me. It was 130lbs of killing machine. They could tell it to kill anything, and it would do it. Their neighbor's dog had been biting them, so it was the first to go. Then they'd set it on foxes, which is could run down with eas…

You can do some google searches about wolves as pets and it's fascinating. Domesticated dogs adjust quite readily to a pack pecking order. Wolves will with a lot of training, but they never stop trying for the top spot. It's a constant battle.

Also, if their pack leader looks sick or injured, the wolf will take that a signal to make a move for top spot. I've heard of owners twisting an ankle and hobbling around and the wolf starts looking at them very differently.

Finally, they have a very strong prey instinct. Stories about the wolf being exposed to children and not taking an eye off them. Practically waiting for an opportunity to pounce.

That's not to say wolves can't be pets, but it take a ton of time and constant vigilance to keep their instincts in check.

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#66

Post by Animats » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 6:55 PM UTC

bambax wrote: post #6

> something is deeply different in dog genes, or in how and when those genes become active, and scientists are trying to determine exactly what it is Darwin famously observed in the first chapter of On the Origin of Species that not one of our domestic animals can be named which has not in some country drooping ears . Darwin himself attributed it to "muscle misuse", the rationale being that domestic animals are not f…

Not one of our domestic animals can be named which has not in some country drooping ears.

Neither cats nor horses have drooping ears, except for ones that have serious birth defects or mutations.

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#67

Post by derefr » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 6:59 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #65

nthompson wrote: post #57

When wolves got reintroduced to Idaho, a few hillbillies went up into the primitive area and stole some pups, and they circulated around as pets. My buddy had one, and it scared the shit out of me. It was 130lbs of killing machine. They could tell it to kill anything, and it would do it. Their neighbor's dog had been biting them, so it was the first to go. Then they'd set it on foxes, which is could run down with eas…

You can do some google searches about wolves as pets and it's fascinating. Domesticated dogs adjust quite readily to a pack pecking order. Wolves will with a lot of training, but they never stop trying for the top spot. It's a constant battle. Also, if their pack leader looks sick or injured, the wolf will take that a signal to make a move for top spot. I've heard of owners twisting an ankle and hobbling around and t…

I'm curious—do people get "pet" wolves spayed/neutered? Because that basically sounds like the behaviour of non-neutered cats; it goes away completely when their gonads do.

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#68

Post by Animats » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 7:03 PM UTC

California no longer allows keeping half-wolves as domestic pets. I have a friend who had a half-wolf, half-husky when that was still allowed. She's an endurance rider and runner, and wanted an animal that could keep up. She says she never allowed the animal alone with her daughter until the daughter was bigger than the animal.

You really have to be a competent animal trainer to keep one of those.

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#69

Post by derefr » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 7:08 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #66

bambax wrote: post #6

> something is deeply different in dog genes, or in how and when those genes become active, and scientists are trying to determine exactly what it is Darwin famously observed in the first chapter of On the Origin of Species that not one of our domestic animals can be named which has not in some country drooping ears . Darwin himself attributed it to "muscle misuse", the rationale being that domestic animals are not f…

Not one of our domestic animals can be named which has not in some country drooping ears. Neither cats nor horses have drooping ears, except for ones that have serious birth defects or mutations.

We've never prized docility in horses the way we do in other "pets"; in most cases, we've either bred them to be easily-spooked speed monsters (race horses; courier horses), or angry muscular bulls (war horses.)

And there has never really been any kind of long-term eugenics project for cats; they mostly domesticated themselves, which had different results. There are no "work cats" that we've selectively bred with other "work cats" to improve their demeanour; there are purebred cats, but they're basically assholes and we basically don't care. (Why this is, I'll never know.)

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#70

Post by arkades » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 7:12 PM UTC

jamiek88 wrote: post #44

vrc wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former "kotzebue" mal owner, I completely understand your story. We had a golden before, and when we got our mal, we really didn't know what we were in for. It was actually odd, in that my parents, being from India, saw big dogs as "security" animals, so didn't spare the rod with the golden initially, and had to unlearn the tough love quickly through the obedience classes with him because he thrived on affection…

I identify with this story massively. Particularly the attitude towards dogs. Dog is dog human is human and everyone is happier for knowing their place. Dogs get babied a lot in the US and get very confused as to their role. We get gushing admiration of how well 'trained' our dogs are. The dirty secret is they've had barely any conscious training from us, it is an attitude, energy, "I'm the leader here" approach that…

My German shep learned to stop chewing shoes this way.

Nothing we did could get him to stop - it was intolerable. One weekend we went to visit a friend of ours that owned an older shep (actually a cousin of our shep's, from the same breeder.)

My dog went for one of the owner's shoes. The older dog gave him a nip on the muzzle, and that was the end of it. He never again, even after we came home, went after a shoe.