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Software Engineer, Machine Learning

deeplearning.ai

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Re: Software Engineer, Machine Learning

#61

Post by zaptheimpaler »

zzalpha wrote: post #27
zaptheimpaler wrote: post #7

If you don't like the job, DONT APPLY. There is absolutely nothing wrong with seeking people who voluntarily wish to work those hours. It is in fact much better than implicitly expecting long working hours like many jobs while not being upfront about it - that can trap people into a deal they did not fully understand. This is the opposite. It may be unsustainable for the vast majority of people (me included) - so wha…

My guess is this is being called out because it's symptomatic of a toxic valley culture that clearly values workaholism, to the detriment of people's mental and physical health. Couple that with a broader obsession in the US corporate workplace for increased productivity at all costs, and I can see why people would see this as beyond the pale. So, yes, taken as a single point, you're right, simply don't apply. As par…

I agree that there is a larger problem. Taking it out on these guys is completely backwards.

Take it out on the hundred companies who advertise and pay for 40 hr workweeks while really expecting much more. That would be so much better for our industry.

Re: Software Engineer, Machine Learning

#62

Post by zaptheimpaler »

foo101 wrote: post #33
zaptheimpaler wrote: post #7

If you don't like the job, DONT APPLY. There is absolutely nothing wrong with seeking people who voluntarily wish to work those hours. It is in fact much better than implicitly expecting long working hours like many jobs while not being upfront about it - that can trap people into a deal they did not fully understand. This is the opposite. It may be unsustainable for the vast majority of people (me included) - so wha…

Of course, I won't apply. I guess that's common sense. But I think this trend needs to be called out and discussed. I want to have the possibility of working healthy hours like I currently do at my current workplace for many more years to come. But if this trend becomes pervasive in the industry, I would lose this possibility.

Completely agree about the trend.

All I am saying is most startups advertise and pay for 40 hour workweeks while expecting much more. They are the problem - call them out - not this company! Because false advertising about expected work hours is what really kills you - you don't have the "common sense" choice of not applying because you wont even find out until 3 months into the job!

In contrast, deeplearning.ai, by being honest about what they truly expect they really are doing a huge service to candidates.

Re: Software Engineer, Machine Learning

#63

Post by sgy »

transverse wrote: post #49
sgy wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've met several people who work even more than that

This can only last a short while. In time you would have sufficiently damaged their health and wellbeing that they will stop it and curse you for it. But what do you care.

Why would you stop someone passionate and determined? Their wellbeing is a personal matter in that regard.

Re: Software Engineer, Machine Learning

#64

Post by transverse »

sgy wrote: post #63
transverse wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This can only last a short while. In time you would have sufficiently damaged their health and wellbeing that they will stop it and curse you for it. But what do you care.

Why would you stop someone passionate and determined? Their wellbeing is a personal matter in that regard.

I have worked 18 hour days doing software development and the costs this has on health aren't realized until later, at which point the damage can sometimes be irreversible. The workers are too naive to realize it in time.

Re: Software Engineer, Machine Learning

#65

Post by zzalpha »

zaptheimpaler wrote: post #61
zzalpha wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is this is being called out because it's symptomatic of a toxic valley culture that clearly values workaholism, to the detriment of people's mental and physical health. Couple that with a broader obsession in the US corporate workplace for increased productivity at all costs, and I can see why people would see this as beyond the pale. So, yes, taken as a single point, you're right, simply don't apply. As par…

I agree that there is a larger problem. Taking it out on these guys is completely backwards. Take it out on the hundred companies who advertise and pay for 40 hr workweeks while really expecting much more. That would be so much better for our industry.

What, because they're honest about it it's more noble?

Sorry, no.

If anything, this is the next step in normalizing this kind of destructive work culture: being up front and unapologetic about wanting to exploit people.

Re: Software Engineer, Machine Learning

#66

Post by edanm »

xroche wrote: post #12

All modern research/studies tend to demonstrate that, beyond 40 hours, productivity does not rise, and, beyond 50 hours, it actually plunge, with quality dropping, employees driven to burn-out, etc. But still, the stupid mantra from the Silicon Valley is "you have to work 80 hours to be successful" Why are these CEO/CTO unable to comprehend studies and adopting a totally irrational position ? https://www.inc.com/tom-…

Probably because most people don't really believe these studies (assuming they've heard of them). I'm very doubtful of them myself.

It really just-so happens that the standard US workweek is the exact perfect amount? That sounds incredibly unlikely. And this is a hard thing to study, too.

Moreover, anecdotally, I know plenty of people that work more hours than this, effectively (and also some that work less!).

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