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Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

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Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#61
post #8
post #3

I don't understand how this strategy works. Company A doesn't want to hire employees because employees have rights. Instead, they hire temps from Company B who abuses their employees' rights. Why doesn't the government start policing the abuse of rights by Company B? Why doesn't the government pass laws that acknowledge that these employees are truly employees of Company A?

First, as stated in the article Company B practically doesn't exist and if it gets closed, it can reappear as Company C next door. Second, because the people writing these laws didn't envision such greed and now there's too much lobbying money thrown around.

Exactly. Some of these companies don't even have any capital. If Company A withholds payment one week, they can't pay their employees. Capitalism without capital! They are best classified as leeches.

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#62
post #49

In August, charges were laid against Fiera Foods under the Occupational Health and Safety Act for the 2016 death of a temp agency worker named Amina Diaby. Her hijab was caught in a machine, strangling her. /thread.

Not sure what you're trying to convey?

Cannot say what the parent wanted to convey, but that particular struck me too.

It is a basic safety rule in any envirnment where machines are present that you cannot wear any loose clothing, (like a scarf, or a hijab, but also wide pants or sleeves) nor jewelry (rings, bracelets, necklaces, etc.).

As a matter of fact later in the article, the journalist reported: >I am told to bring safety shoes, and instructed not to wear a hijab or jewelry.

In most factories AFAIK, besides such a "dress code" there is a responsible that checks that workers are dressed according to such safety rules.

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#63
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Temps are usually not employees of company B, they will be contractors where B are operating as an "agency". If you look at the paperwork everyone involved will be "self-employed" > pass laws that acknowledge that these employees are truly employees of Company A? It's hard to draft this without completely ruling out even legitimate temp jobs. Does working at the factory for a week make you an employee? How about for…

Yes.

I'm a self-employed IT Contractor. I actively don't want to be an employee.

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#64
post #40

Having worked at two manufacturers in the Midwest, anecdotally the majority of forklift drivers, line workers on specific lines, and even many white collar office roles were filled by temp agencies. A similar structure existed for engineering too; we would have a problem and the engineering firm with workers under the same roof would develop a solution. For the temp workers the motivation was always very clear and ve…

Ending right to work laws and bringing back unions.

I don't really get this line of thinking, it just seems like a denial of globalization, automation, and economics. Instead of helping the workers it more seeks to punish American capitalists--including all the people like me who hope to retire in the future with investments that grow. When the rest of the world is developed enough that a union could span the entire globe, then this would at least be logical again.

As an electrical engineer working for the company, two of my assigned jobs were 1) evaluating the cost effectiveness of replacing all the forklift drivers with robots and 2) installing new equipment to eliminate repetitive lifting roles on the packaging lines. I was actually surprised how much cheaper the human forklift drivers were than the robots (mostly this was because we had really efficient, hardworking drivers and the robots needed special accommodations and could not handle all special cases).

I left the company because it was very demoralizing working alongside people who you were being paid to replace. But make no mistake, the autonomous forklifts would have been cheaper if the company had to employ the drivers directly, taking the hit to their safety record and bottom line.

There are other ideas for increasing the bargaining position of American labor and reducing capital inequality. For example, plugging up the mechanisms by which trade deficit capital returns to the United States (through economics--not by law, so by increasing property taxes in cities with big foreign investment, reducing the federal debt, switching to regional taxation system, etc.). Another example, if economics, as a collective school of thought, could reconsider its obsession with monetary inflation and consider if technology driven deflation is actually a bad thing. A worker getting a deflationary pay raise would be in a much stronger bargaining position and would actually be claiming some of the rewards of all the technological advances of capitalism by default.

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#65
post #12
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, as stated in the article Company B practically doesn't exist and if it gets closed, it can reappear as Company C next door. Second, because the people writing these laws didn't envision such greed and now there's too much lobbying money thrown around.

> now there's too much lobbying money thrown around But this is Canada! We have strict political donation laws and campaign spending laws that really prevent lobbying from getting nuts like it is in America. I'm mostly upset because this is in my back yard. I could be at this factory in 20 minutes in current traffic conditions.

Even with laws like that large companies have a lot of advantages in lobbying for laws. First it's much easier for a large company to get lobbyists because they have the money to hire them where workers and worker rights groups have smaller purses to draw from. Second the things companies lobby for have nice big metrics they can trot out, profitability, GDP or job growth, etc where improving working conditions for industry X doesn't have a nice big number you can trot out or even really benefits everyone in a way they can appreciate where the pro-business side can draw more direct 'regulation X killed this many jobs last year, repeal it and we swear we won't be evil.'

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#66
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My second question is : why don't union gets bigger and stronger ? Millions can't be put on the brink on poverty without an answer. Yesterday, on a european TV, I saw a documentary about middle class people who became half-homeless (their words). They were just unlucky to loose their jobs. Now I understand they may have had too much credits or debts here and there but, these were middle class, that is, they went down…

Almost no Belgians in Belgium are homeless. I haven't seen anyone, although there seems to be some in the main capital. I know a lot of refugees live in sheltes and currently there are homeless people in Brussels due to the breakup of Calais. But these people don't want to get asile in Belgium, but want to go to the UK. So that's why they don't receive anything here. That is their choice ofc.

>>ut these people don't want to get asile in Belgium, but want to go to the UK. So that's why they don't receive anything here. That is their choice ofc.

It's not their choice. EU rules say they should claim asylum in the first EU country they arrive in.

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#67

How is it not her own fault for wearing dangerous clothing (a hijab) in a factory workplace? Something as simple as long hair can be dangerous in such an environment, and a hijab or scarf is unthinkable. Darwin award.

"Darwin award."

I'm a little unclear about your point. Do you mean that Moslems deserve to die, or low skilled workers in general?

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. There are clear differences on who is responsible here. We can expect a factory to be always responsible over their area as it is a larger entity and doing business and we expect them to be experts and be in control of their own domain. We can expect them to be responsible over their non skilled labourers. A plumber is the expert in this case and he controls his domain while you are just a dumb customer.

That's why it's not simple - you've got lots of things open to debate there - who is skilled or unskilled, who is a business, who is a 'larger' entity, who is the expert. That's why it's more complicated than just saying 'yes' with an emphatic full stop.

Then start defining those into laws. I think my country already has those defined pretty well thanks to strong unions.

You'll never get there if you don't even start.

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#69
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, that too comes with it's negatives. Unions have both positives and negatives. It's not a simple discussion.

What is an alternative to unions that gives workers some power in the relationship between worker and employer?

The ability to get another job.

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#70

> Fiera’s current clients include some of the continent’s biggest brands including Dunkin’ Donuts and Sobeys; over the years it has made pastries for Costco, Tim Hortons, Metro, Walmart, and Loblaw. Its factories churn out baked goods by the truckload, destined for markets across North America and around the world. They can produce 2 million bagels alone per day. Retail boycotts have been used against clothing sweats…

Consider getting a bread maker: Keurig for bread.

The results for me have always been sub par, and the varieties very limited. The better solution, I found, was the bakery. Bread is cheap there and there is a ton of variety. It's all made expertly by a baker, not some gimmicky machine.
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