Live data from Hacker News

I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

houstonchronicle.com

61–70 of 147 posts

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#61
post #47

When Katrina hit, I remember finding the blog of a guy who had a company doing custom websites in New Orleans on the front page of hacker news. He stayed there through the storm and after, and I remember sitting in the undergraduate library at Wayne State University fighting back tears reading it. This had a similar affect on me. Very powerful story. It wasn't clear to me, but I'd love to learn more about the tech po…

You might be thinking about https://interdictor.livejournal.com/2005/08/ ?

The Interdictor // this is the one that I remember. I was glued to this guy's post during that time ... was fascinating.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#62
post #53

We used Zello when we were down there with a boat. We are just regular people, not part of anyone's navy, just a few guys with a boat that were part of a much larger civilian response to this disaster. About the Cajun Navy - There were so many people responding to this disaster wanting to help with their time and boats that many times we found ourselves staging to launch but ultimately unable to get in the water beca…

One advantage of a trained ham radio operator is that false reports such as you've described are sifted much more thoroughly before being broadcast. Limiting access to the communication channels by requiring licensing is a great way to improve signal to noise ratio.

I agree that trained operators improve the system's ability to handle false input. I'm not sure that requiring licensing for situations like natural disasters is the answer. There will always be people on the ground locally with some of the skills needed to coordinate with dedicated first responders and all of the first-hand knowledge about the status of local infrastructure. Having open, public communication channels for this information to be disseminated probably improves the ability of first responders to direct resources where they are most needed. I think you will always have people ready to inject false or over-hyped reports or who just get emotional and blow things out of proportion. The more people on the ground who can make a report, the easier it will be for a trained first responder to spot and filter reports that clearly are outliers.

Ham operators, I hope, will always be a critical part of the infrastructure. Their ability to relay information when other options are unavailable is very important.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#63
post #51
post #3

It's really depressing that we've largely abandoned the art of decentralized radio communication. I think Amateur radio has seen a minor resurgence in recent years, but it seems like more and more traffic that traditionally would have been passed by decentralized amateur operators now relies on centralized networks. Obviously Zello and its ilk bring significant benefits with them, but I worry about the impact they ha…

Amateur radio is still alive, but there are not nearly as many active hams as there were 30 years ago when I first got my license. A much smaller percentage of hams know how to pass traffic in a systematic way these days, and not as many are proficient with Morse code, which is arguably the most efficient use of spectrum in disaster scenarios. Hams did help during Harvey and are helping during Irma, but it doesn't ge…

> My challenge to a community that includes "hacker" in its name is to consider picking up the radio hobby.

You hit the nail on the head here. I've been fooling around with computer programming for over a decade now (since I was in Jr. High), and Arduinos and Raspberry Pis as long as they have been available, but I never put much thought into ham radio. Most of the makers I know go straight to pre-made WiFi or Bluetooth modules when the time comes to make their projects work wirelessly - accepting their limitations while overlooking much simpler solutions which can be achieved though RF and a little bit of know-how. In hindsight, I wish I had learned about ham radio much sooner.

There is a massive schism between the ham community and the hacker community which doesn't make much sense to me. They are both very much interested in finding novel solutions to problems and sharing them with the community, doing more with less, placing value in decentralization, and have a similar sort of independent counter-culture and grounded respect for technology.

I think it is simply a problem of awareness. Before I got into ham radio, I assumed that the FCC simply allocated a tiny bucket of useless spectrum for amateur use, and that it's practical utility was quite limited. I didn't know that amateurs had access to bands all the way across the spectrum, that they are allowed to transmit at 1500 watts, that they could talk directly to the ISS, or make use of satellite repeaters and reach across oceans with a walkie talkie. On the HF bands, ham radio makes international communication possible without any middleman, subscription fee, or infrastructure. It is also a godsend for people launching weather balloons, allows you to build some incredibly badass RC craft, and can serve as the backbone of all sorts of other fascinating endeavors.

I think the schism is generational. The maker movement is composed largely of kids who grew up with the Internet, and really took off with social media and web 2.0, while the ham community is composed of a large body of people who came of age and mastered their craft before computers became ubiquitous. For better or worse, a lot of them seem to remain set in their ways. Many ham websites, including those of active clubs, brick and mortar stores, and repeater networks, look like they're straight out of the 90s, and social media outreach remains quite limited. I suppose the fundamentals of radio, much like physics or mathematics, hasn't changed much in the past 50 years, but these communities unfortunately seem to be living in different worlds.

I think that it is essential for us to bridge the gap. The alliance of the hams and the makers really stands to bring positive outcomes for both communities.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#64
I wish there were a disaster militia, with something like quarterly weekend trainings, with some FEMA sponsorship but still independent. It would be fun to practice ham communications and boat rescue anyway, and a little bit of practice could have a huge impact when the shit is truly hitting the fan.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#65

When Katrina hit, I remember finding the blog of a guy who had a company doing custom websites in New Orleans on the front page of hacker news. He stayed there through the storm and after, and I remember sitting in the undergraduate library at Wayne State University fighting back tears reading it. This had a similar affect on me. Very powerful story. It wasn't clear to me, but I'd love to learn more about the tech po…

What a blast from the past. Katrina hit during my senior year of undergrad and I went and refreshed that very same blog each hour for a day or two following along with events as they happened, as he saw them. Was an amazing perspective at the time.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#66

Lot of misconception on this app that it works without cell service, like a regular walkie talkie. Does seem like a good idea if Apple or Samsung might build in some point to point radio hardware similar to a Gotenna that's works without cell infrastructure.

Serval actually does this with WiFi mesh networking. http://www.servalproject.org/

Wifi mesh seems obvious but at 2.4ghz or 5ghz too limited in range.

I was thinking 150Mhz~ MURS like Gotenna for a few miles range.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#67

We used Zello when we were down there with a boat. We are just regular people, not part of anyone's navy, just a few guys with a boat that were part of a much larger civilian response to this disaster. About the Cajun Navy - There were so many people responding to this disaster wanting to help with their time and boats that many times we found ourselves staging to launch but ultimately unable to get in the water beca…

Massive resources were wasted with boats lined up in one spot that could've been actively searching somewhere else. I'm on a search & rescue team, and this is usually the chief challenge with "the public" getting involved, there is no established organizational structure. People all mean well, but it is incredibly difficult to utilize a horde of untrained people effectively at the drop of a hat, and it can also make…

All things considered, it is in the public interest to allow willing people to spend their time and resources assisting in situations like this. This is possibly the best community-building thing that you can do. Giving everyone regardless of background a stake in surviving something like this can really open up lines of communication that were previously closed by cultural differences or old enmities.

We all came away from this with the feeling that we had done some good for people that really genuinely needed and appreciated outside help. We began actively planning how we could assist the next time something like this happened. We analyzed what we had done and how we did it and identified our own deficiencies and came away resolving to be more prepared.

I think that likely benefits not only us but those who we attempt to assist if there is a next time.

I honestly wasn't trying to knock the Cajun Navy or Zello though it probably reads that way in spots. I'm a consultant in real life and a lot of my work involves identifying logical problems and other deficiencies in my client's operations so that they can focus their improvement efforts where they get the most benefit. Hopefully some of this is useful at some later point.

One thing I forgot to mention that we encountered involves rescuers entering neighborhoods where most residents do not speak English. The 'official' groups we encountered didn't have anyone who could translate English to Spanish or vice versa and thus were unable to understand what problems one potential evacuee needed resolved. Groups should get an introduction to Google Translate or other real-time translation tools so that people who may be in imminent danger can be assisted without having to wait for a translator to arrive.

Houston is a very diverse city culturally with large vibrant populations of people who do not speak or understand English. Once you get into smaller cities you are more likely to find groups where Spanish is the main language. Tools for communication with ALL affected people should be available with all trained, official first responders.

I think your idea about use of unconventional resources is spot on. Most people there with a boat and not part of an official group only wanted to know where they needed to launch or would be allowed to launch and addresses where people were requesting assistance or rescue. I believe a very effective solution to disaster response was demonstrated in Houston and the surrounding area over the last couple of weeks. There are things that could use some polish but overall it is a great model.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#68

I wish there were a disaster militia, with something like quarterly weekend trainings, with some FEMA sponsorship but still independent. It would be fun to practice ham communications and boat rescue anyway, and a little bit of practice could have a huge impact when the shit is truly hitting the fan.

That's sort of what the national guard is for. They train a couple weeks per year and respond to situations like this.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#69

We used Zello when we were down there with a boat. We are just regular people, not part of anyone's navy, just a few guys with a boat that were part of a much larger civilian response to this disaster. About the Cajun Navy - There were so many people responding to this disaster wanting to help with their time and boats that many times we found ourselves staging to launch but ultimately unable to get in the water beca…

Why were people lying about rescuers being in danger? Just trolls? I think we would have heard by now if there were pirates out there stealing rescue boats at gunpoint.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#70
post #68

I wish there were a disaster militia, with something like quarterly weekend trainings, with some FEMA sponsorship but still independent. It would be fun to practice ham communications and boat rescue anyway, and a little bit of practice could have a huge impact when the shit is truly hitting the fan.

That's sort of what the national guard is for. They train a couple weeks per year and respond to situations like this.

They weren't enough unfortunately, hence the cajun navy. Some sort of civilian auxiliary corps would be awesome.

I'm thinking of more of a social graph where civilians who are going to help in these sorts of situations can be organized more efficiently. For instance, instead of having a bunch of people drive their personal cars out there, going out as a group would improve the individual's abilities to help efficiently.

Post reply on HN