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Leaked document: EU Presidency calls for massive internet filtering

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Re: Leaked document: EU Presidency calls for massive internet filtering

#61

Post by allendoerfer »

Pica_soO wrote: post #57
allendoerfer wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now after the very same dream, has allowed for the life-standard growth of most of its citizens to disappear - they are in for a rude wake up with extremists devouring the corpse. What are you even talking about? We just had an Australian guest, who drove freely through Europe using one currency. These states previously fought two world wars against each other.

France nearly voted nationalist last vote. All of eastern europe is basically slowly abandoning democracy and demolishing its institutions. Germany is in for a AFD government. Sorry, but drive through tourism does not paint a accurate picture.

> Germany is in for a AFD government.

It is very much not. That's just plain false. Right-wing governments have been elected everywhere (US, Australia etc.). I don't deny that the EU has played a role, but you are painting a very dark picture of an institution which has a primarily positive influence on the world.

Re: Leaked document: EU Presidency calls for massive internet filtering

#62

Post by klez »

program_whiz wrote: post #60

Is anyone surprised at this? The internet is a single point which governs the majority of information and communication for the people now. Someone who is in power can potentially eliminate threats and increase their own power/wealth. I would be more surprised to find the opposite -- that the powerful had privately written a memo telling others that privacy matters more than their own power/wealth/safety. Its like al…

The fact that it's not surprising shouldn't prevent us from being outraged and from demanding a repeal.

Re: Leaked document: EU Presidency calls for massive internet filtering

#63

Post by FoeNyx »

tinus_hn wrote: post #19
Joe-Z wrote: post #9

I sincerely hope that we will succeed in keeping the internet as democratic as possible and not let it be destroyed by corporate interests in the name 'terrorism prevention'. I'd like to give a shout-out to epicenter.works, an Austrian NGO, which I've been following the last 1.5 years or so. I think it's hard to get the public engaged in these topics, but they seem to be really determined. Here's a google translate l…

The Internet was never democratic. When did you get to vote on anything?

> When did you get to vote on anything?

October 2000, there were a worldwide online vote to select some members of the ICANN Board of Directors.

https://www.icann.org/news/icann-pr-2000-09-21-en

Re: Leaked document: EU Presidency calls for massive internet filtering

#64

Post by chatmasta »

> upload filter

Your upload is my download. A user uploads an HTTP request to a server, and the server uploads an HTTP response to the user. Of course that sounds unnatural compared to the user downloading the HTTP response. But the difference between upload/download is purely semantic and only distinguishes the intent of the user. Regardless of terms used, data flows in one direction, then back in another. The only distinguishing factor is its direction and whether or not both sides can establish the initial connection. So in that sense, a server uploads data to the user, who implicitly permitted the sever to do so when establishing the connection.

This misappropriation of technical language to advance a policy goal is revealing in that it shows the concept is fundamentally unlegislatable and therefore unenforceable, or worse, arbitrarily enforceable.

This is just part of an ongoing legislative pattern of the past 5-10 years. My reading of its trajectory is that regulatory regimes will eventually require licenses to run any service behind public IP addresses, to register domain names, and to advertise BGP routes or run public DNS resolvers. When coupled with centralization of inbound routing infrastructure (transatlantic fiber) and/or increased regulation of IP transit companies, this licensing legislature will work effectively.

Re: Leaked document: EU Presidency calls for massive internet filtering

#65

Post by JBReefer »

dalbasal wrote: post #49

China’s example is massive. China’s success has proven that countries can succeed without adopting western liberal freedoms. In fact, success adopting only a small subset of economic and personal freedoms, and none of the political freedoms. The economy is good, the state is stable.. Proof of concept for non-liberal systems. This means freedoms need to be argued for on their own merits. Free speech for its own sake.…

A huge chunk of millennials are non longer believe in free speech [0], and everyone seems to agree that Facebook et. al's censorship of objectionable content is great. Between the insanity of the current government/far right, and the rise of the far/tankie left, I'm not sure that liberalism is long for this world, even in the West.

[0] http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/20/40-of-millen...

Re: Leaked document: EU Presidency calls for massive internet filtering

#66

Post by sdbrown »

So I admit that I've only skimmed the PDF on statewatch.org that the site points to, but I didn't see the "massive filtering" bit. This reads like the DMCA seems to be practiced; can someone point out to me the specific page number of the PDF, or better the text within the document, which refers to the content filtering?

I'm not saying the DMCA is a good thing or a bad thing; I'm just trying to get calibrated to what is being proposed in the directive. Thanks for the help!

Re: Leaked document: EU Presidency calls for massive internet filtering

#67

Post by nthcolumn »

icebraining wrote: post #17
pmyteh wrote: post #12

Non-EU readers should bear in mind that the presidency of the EU is much much weaker than that of, say, the US. It's rotated around the countries on a schedule, and has mainly agenda-setting authority. That is, countries who hold the presidency will use it to try to get movement on some issues that they care about, but it doesn't have anywhere close to enough power to get something passed which the other member state…

True. One wonders what Estonia, or its government, has to gain from this, though.

e-Stonia has e-Residency, and various other internet-based shenanigans. You can get an e-passport, set up business, get residency, travel documents, online, I think. Just visit your local embassy with proof of id. They are selling themselves as a digital destination/economy. Russia occasionally does massive DDoS there. so ymmv. Not sure how that relates though just surprised it was them. Maybe they are leaking it because they want it nipped in the bud.

Re: Leaked document: EU Presidency calls for massive internet filtering

#68

Post by nthcolumn »

VeejayRampay wrote: post #22
wiz21c wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or Erdogan ?

Turkey is not part of the EU yet. I don't see how exactly the power "sits with Erdoğan".

Not part or ever will be it seems. Their application officially just recently being moved to the out tray.

Re: Leaked document: EU Presidency calls for massive internet filtering

#69

Post by rebuilder »

So at a quick glance at the leaked document, it seems to contain provisions for requiring certain services to let copyright holders have unlicensed content pulled and to provide ways to stop such content being posted in the first place. Excluded from this group would be e.g. ISPs, storage providers and service providers whose primary function is not to distribute content to the public.

The article seems very alarmist and light on detail. This draft may well be pretty bad, but I'd recommend reading it to form your opinion.

Re: Leaked document: EU Presidency calls for massive internet filtering

#70

Post by RobertoG »

icebraining wrote: post #17
pmyteh wrote: post #12

Non-EU readers should bear in mind that the presidency of the EU is much much weaker than that of, say, the US. It's rotated around the countries on a schedule, and has mainly agenda-setting authority. That is, countries who hold the presidency will use it to try to get movement on some issues that they care about, but it doesn't have anywhere close to enough power to get something passed which the other member state…

True. One wonders what Estonia, or its government, has to gain from this, though.

That is what I would like to see leaked. How exactly this kind of thing start.

Who have the first conversation that we finally see as "the Estonia government want x". The same I would like to know about the free trade agreements.

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