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Noam Chomsky Joins Faculty at University of Arizona

uanews.arizona.edu

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Re: Noam Chomsky Joins Faculty at University of Arizona

#61

Post by [deleted] »

ArialAnemone wrote: post #60
shkibb wrote: post #44

Does anybody else find these sorts of discussions to be just fundamentally cringey as hell? On both sides. Stuff like "We agree mainstream black culture is terrible." Like I don't think either would have the guts to say that in front of a black person.

How could it not be terrible? Black america is screwed. The rate of fatherlessness is apocalyptic. Especially when you combine that with the fact that single parent households, with the mother as the parent, produce far more criminals and mentally ill per "family" than households with both parents. Black america is screwed to be a perpetual underclass. imo.

[deleted]

Re: Noam Chomsky Joins Faculty at University of Arizona

#62

Post by jtraffic »

I suspect that when Chomsky dies, a burst of new and valuable linguistics research will arrive. I'm not saying I hope he dies soon. However, I think his current impact on the field is probably negative.

My theory derives from these sources: https://www.economist.com/news/books-and-arts/21695371-theor... (Chomsky's recent theory of how language evolved has not been accepted favorably), and

http://www.nber.org/papers/w21788 (this happens a lot)

Re: Noam Chomsky Joins Faculty at University of Arizona

#63

Post by hueving »

BuckRogers wrote: post #8
cooper12 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy shit that link you shared was so frustrating to read. To think of all the productive things a great intellectual like Chomsky could be doing with his time. Instead he generously chose to engage someone who had already made their conclusion and just wanted to "debate" without actually ceding to any points (take a shot any time OP says "liberal" or "PC"). He even hints at OP's "intentional ignorance" many times to…

That's why whenever I speak to someone and they have a strong opinion I like to ask them how many books they've read on that subject. It's almost always zero. You can pretty much instantly discard anyone like that as it's a decent baseline litmus test. If you really cared about something, you would read at least one if not multiple books on the subject. Anything less is just laziness and someone who wants to get an e…

That's a pretty pathetic litmus test. I would rather engage someone who has read individual research papers, blogs from researchers, etc than books.

Nearly all of the best programmers I have met have never read a book on the languages in which they are experts.

Books are not conducive to learning about a whole field, they are just a way for authors to lecture you on their world view.

Re: Noam Chomsky Joins Faculty at University of Arizona

#64

Post by jancsika »

cooper12 wrote: post #4
otalp wrote: post #2

He's 88, still mentally very sharp and probably moved there for the weather(aside from the great department filled with old students). His work ethic is incredible, he spends 5 hours a day responding to emails from the public- I've received a detailed response every time I've sent one. The amount of time he spends engaging with even terribly misinformed(but well meaning) people is truly astounding, and unparalleled a…

Holy shit that link you shared was so frustrating to read. To think of all the productive things a great intellectual like Chomsky could be doing with his time. Instead he generously chose to engage someone who had already made their conclusion and just wanted to "debate" without actually ceding to any points (take a shot any time OP says "liberal" or "PC"). He even hints at OP's "intentional ignorance" many times to…

Most people do stuff like this to sharpen their teeth.

There's a great recording on Youtube of a biology grad student debating Kent Hovind on the broad subject of evolution. Even though Hovind is essentially a confidence man, the conversation is enlightening nonetheless because the grad student knows his shit and gives some surprising lucid explanations that I haven't heard in other general audience discussions of evolution.

Also, most people rely on a kind of "smell test" to keep from engaging with certain types of arguments. That can quickly create a moral hazard where the person being avoided misrepresents people's reluctance to engage as proof that he/she is a noble dissident with the courage to speak the truth.

When someone like Chomsky, Ken Miller, Glenn Greenwald, or another intellectual engages directly with such people it pushes them into a corner where they either have to deliver the goods, change the subject, or commit a fallacy.

In a debate, Greenwald forced one of the former NSA directors into such a situation when the response was, "Collect everything doesn't really mean collect everything." Trusting nature of most people being what it is, these forced errors have value.

Re: Noam Chomsky Joins Faculty at University of Arizona

#65

Post by smithsmith »

avip wrote: post #30
em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #5

Chomsky is a great critic of social issues like imperialism, manufactured consent, and state capitalism. However he has been proved devastatingly wrong about Venezuela and as of today won't admit the problems with state socialism. I hope his new students realize this.

[EDITed to leave only the point I'm confident about] a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy

How to define a nonscientific problem. There is none. All sociology problems are related to psychology that is related to biology which is related to chemistry which is related to physics which is related to math. https://xkcd.com/435/

Re: Noam Chomsky Joins Faculty at University of Arizona

#66

Post by swaggyBoatswain »

otalp wrote: post #2

He's 88, still mentally very sharp and probably moved there for the weather(aside from the great department filled with old students). His work ethic is incredible, he spends 5 hours a day responding to emails from the public- I've received a detailed response every time I've sent one. The amount of time he spends engaging with even terribly misinformed(but well meaning) people is truly astounding, and unparalleled a…

I think this reddit comment in here sums up my thoughts on reading that random kid post

"Dear mr. chomsky i realize you've been an MIT professor for 60 years. you've made significant contributions to many fields of studies including linguistics, history, computer science, and philosophy and you've debated with towering figures such as Michel Foucault, Hannah Arendt, Jean Piaget, etc... now can you please allow me to condescend to you while i quote Breitbart news about blacks?"

Re: Noam Chomsky Joins Faculty at University of Arizona

#67

Post by eighthnate »

em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #5

Chomsky is a great critic of social issues like imperialism, manufactured consent, and state capitalism. However he has been proved devastatingly wrong about Venezuela and as of today won't admit the problems with state socialism. I hope his new students realize this.

> However he has been proved devastatingly wrong about Venezuela and as of today won't admit the problems with state socialism. I hope his new students realize this.

Doesn't the problems with state socialism result from being attack by state capitalism which tend to be much stronger nations?

The US and europe attacking venezuela and blaming their failures on state socialism is like blaming democracy for ukraine's loss of crimea. When larger nations bully smaller nations, smaller nations suffer.

We can never truly ascertain the merits of socialism, capitalism or any other ism really because it doesn't exist in a vacuum.

The chinese and their state socialism has been the most successful nation the past 40 years after the US decided to play nice with them.

Re: Noam Chomsky Joins Faculty at University of Arizona

#68

Post by justin66 »

I haven't read his political works but Noam Chomsky as a social phenomenon is interesting. His subject matter is often media and political manipulation and people who haven't read him often feel compelled by an entrenched, opposed political view to voice extremely strong opinions about his work. And they're doing this without any conscious irony.

Re: Noam Chomsky Joins Faculty at University of Arizona

#69

Post by catenthusiast »

ArialAnemone wrote: post #60
shkibb wrote: post #44

Does anybody else find these sorts of discussions to be just fundamentally cringey as hell? On both sides. Stuff like "We agree mainstream black culture is terrible." Like I don't think either would have the guts to say that in front of a black person.

How could it not be terrible? Black america is screwed. The rate of fatherlessness is apocalyptic. Especially when you combine that with the fact that single parent households, with the mother as the parent, produce far more criminals and mentally ill per "family" than households with both parents. Black america is screwed to be a perpetual underclass. imo.

Fuck off.

Re: Noam Chomsky Joins Faculty at University of Arizona

#70

Post by galacticpony2 »

RobertoG wrote: post #50
galacticpony2 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As frequently happen, the new elite was incompetent, and get corrupted fast. Consequently, Chomsky criticized them. That doesn't just happen "frequently", it has happened in 100% of socialist countries after the "revolution". The "critics" then get silenced or killed, unless they happen to (ironically) be sitting in a comfortable chair in an imperialist capitalist country such as the USA, like Chomsky. You'd think…

It's not just in socialist countries that the critics get silenced or killed, or that they are incompetent or get corrupted, but, normally, there are a more "laissez faire" attitude to those countries from the press and the political class, as Chomsky have pointed repetitively. If you care about the welfare of people is fair to ask why a minority live like kings when the vast majority live in misery in a resource ric…

Socialism has failed 100% of the time. You can't get worse than that. Even if capitalist systems failed to improve the lives of the poor 95% of the time, it would still have a better track record. In reality, the most successful countries are all capitalist and free markets have lifted more people out of poverty than anything else.

The fact that some autocratic countries also employ capitalism doesn't change that. Capitalism doesn't magically cure corruption, it's merely a superior economic system. Poverty isn't a function of wealth inequality, it's function of economic development. In a socialist system, the poor may be less poor in relative terms, but they're more poor in absolute terms, because socialist economics eventually fail.

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