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Announcing .NET Core 2.0

blogs.msdn.microsoft.com

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Re: Announcing .NET Core 2.0

#61

Post by mike_hearn »

sandGorgon wrote: post #19

Why are there so few new languages built on the .NET platform ? This is a genuine question - is there something about the JVM that gives rise to such vibrant ecosystems. Clojure, Scala, Kotlin, Groovy, JRuby : Most importantly, every one of them is in production use - not just as toy/experimental languages. And we havent even opened the Pandora's box that is Java 9+Truffle. There's a lot of broscience that .NET is su…

The .NET runtime is not superior to the JVM and probably never has been. Certainly not in performance. The JVM stomps .NET CLR in performance.

C# has been superior to Java, as a language, for quite a long time (IMHO) and likely always will be. The libraries, well, I don't know. Pretty similar I guess.

The thing to consider about programming languages is there's no way to make money from them anymore. That means they're either loss leaders for some other product (Swift : iOS, C# : Windows), the result of academic research (Scala, Haskell, etc), one man's personal quest to redefine coding (Clojure, Groovy, Ruby), or the result of a company attempting to optimise its own processes or products (Go, JavaScript, Kotlin). Oh yes. And then there's C++ which defies categorisation :-)

So now you look at the categories above and what do you observe? That a lot of the developers will be essentially hobbyist in nature, or working on products that are often used on UNIX. These people will want to build on a cross platform runtime. Until recently .NET was not cross platform.

JVM bytecode is also a bit simpler than .NET bytecode and has better support for dynamic languages. Many languages are dynamic.

Re: Announcing .NET Core 2.0

#62

Post by ledgerdev »

sandGorgon wrote: post #19

Why are there so few new languages built on the .NET platform ? This is a genuine question - is there something about the JVM that gives rise to such vibrant ecosystems. Clojure, Scala, Kotlin, Groovy, JRuby : Most importantly, every one of them is in production use - not just as toy/experimental languages. And we havent even opened the Pandora's box that is Java 9+Truffle. There's a lot of broscience that .NET is su…

I would say that the JVM has longer history of open source and a much larger ecosystem of libraries. If you're building a language on top of JVM you can take advantage of that.

Also pretty sure JVM has better performance because of better JIT and GC. The CLR had a second mover advantage to fix a lot of platform level things like utf8 strings, generics, tail calls, etc.

Re: Announcing .NET Core 2.0

#63

Post by dep_b »

Scarbutt wrote: post #28
SiVal wrote: post #18

I wish I had a better sense of where cross-platform desktop app platforms stood these days: Electron, Java, .NET, QT. All I hear are "Eww, Electron is ridiculous, slow, heavy Web junk for desktop", "Eww Java is blub, insecure, and half-abandoned by Oracle", "Eww, .NET is Microsoft and unreliable for anything serious on non-MS OSes", "Eww, by the time you pay the license, learn QT, learn the odd variant of C++, and ma…

For the desktop, electron has mostly won really, the web browser becoming the primary most widely used platform for delivering applications made shipping a desktop application with an embedded browser the next obvious choice.

Electron means you need 2GB of memory for a simple chat app like Slack to talk about the application you're building in a fully featured all bells and whistles included application like Visual Studio that only takes 700MB of your memory.

Compare what Visual Studio + ReSharper does versus what Slack does. I have no idea what 70% of the features in Visual Studio do yet I'm using it professionally for years and years, there's just too much.

Re: Announcing .NET Core 2.0

#64

Post by dep_b »

strayamaaate wrote: post #50
jefe_ wrote: post #15

I have been absolutely loving .NET Core since I started using it this spring. Currently running two applications in production, one on a Windows Server with IIS and another on a Centos 6 server with Docker. Docker was surprisingly easier than configuring Web Deploy to IIS. There have been a few things that are oddly documented, but generally documentation has improved over these months as user base has grown. They ha…

Couldn’t agree more. I’ve been using .Net Core 1.1 daily for the last couple of months building out a reasonably large Web API for a game. The platform, tools and C# as a language are a pleasure to work with on both my Mac and Windows machines (small caveat on VS for Mac, it’s still a bit lumpy) I’ve been using Unity for about 8 years and I’m finally confident building a backend using .Net and basking in the joy of i…

> building out a reasonably large Web API for a game.

How does it handle a lot of users hammering at the API at the same time?

Re: Announcing .NET Core 2.0

#65

Post by LyalinDotCom »

For those of you who are using VSTS: CI/CD or VSTS: Build please note that we're still updating our hosted build image but that should be done in the next few days.

We'll also be sure to update the docs here with the list of what is supported: https://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/docs/build/concepts/agent...

Re: Announcing .NET Core 2.0

#66

Post by pjmlp »

SiVal wrote: post #18

I wish I had a better sense of where cross-platform desktop app platforms stood these days: Electron, Java, .NET, QT. All I hear are "Eww, Electron is ridiculous, slow, heavy Web junk for desktop", "Eww Java is blub, insecure, and half-abandoned by Oracle", "Eww, .NET is Microsoft and unreliable for anything serious on non-MS OSes", "Eww, by the time you pay the license, learn QT, learn the odd variant of C++, and ma…

We use WPF/UWP on Windows projects, Java/Web when needed to be cross-platform, depending on the use case.

Native or Web on mobile projects, again depending on the use case.

Re: Announcing .NET Core 2.0

#67

Post by pjmlp »

Scarbutt wrote: post #28
SiVal wrote: post #18

I wish I had a better sense of where cross-platform desktop app platforms stood these days: Electron, Java, .NET, QT. All I hear are "Eww, Electron is ridiculous, slow, heavy Web junk for desktop", "Eww Java is blub, insecure, and half-abandoned by Oracle", "Eww, .NET is Microsoft and unreliable for anything serious on non-MS OSes", "Eww, by the time you pay the license, learn QT, learn the odd variant of C++, and ma…

For the desktop, electron has mostly won really, the web browser becoming the primary most widely used platform for delivering applications made shipping a desktop application with an embedded browser the next obvious choice.

I hope it dies quicker than Flash.

Re: Announcing .NET Core 2.0

#68

Post by ocdtrekkie »

systems wrote: post #3

Beside C#, what other languages are considered to have first class support I know VB .Net might be implicit here, but I am not so sure as I dont hear much about it anymore and I think it is no longer adding new features And I know that there is some F# support So aside from those two (VB .Net and F#) ... any other languages have serious support for .net core?

Visual Basic .NET is still getting new features, though they recently announced they will stop keeping exact parity between VB and C# language features. (Instead, it looks like they are interested in making it easier to include C# code in your VB project and vice versa long-term.)

Discussion of VB.NET language design can be found here: https://github.com/dotnet/vblang

Re: Announcing .NET Core 2.0

#69

Post by pjmlp »

bnw06 wrote: post #17
ams6110 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think C# is the one and only language to consider if you're doing anything serious in .NET. While F# is academically interesting and maybe OK for some personal or solo projects, you'll struggle to find developers for anything of substantial size.

I'd agree with this but F# is increasingly moving towards first class support.

I will believe that when F# gets a spot in UWP, right now it seems on its way out with an open ticket for support since Windows 10 came out.

Re: Announcing .NET Core 2.0

#70

Post by pjmlp »

jackfoxy wrote: post #20
bsaul wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i tried f# and it really feels like a second classe citizen ( at least on macos). Very few educational resources. You still need to spend a lot of time on c sharp to learn the frameworks, and then maybe move to f#.

The problem is F# does not use the Roslyn compiler (but does use other components of the Roslyn tool stack in Visual Studio) and it uses things in the IL (primarily tail calls) the other .NET languages do not -- and the rest of the Microsoft teams understandably want to move fast on all the initiatives surrounding .NET Core. This results in the Microsoft F# team and the F# community contributors playing catch-up. Eve…

F# was supported on the MDIL compiler for Windows 8.x, then Microsoft did not consider the language relevant enough to support on the new .NET Native compiler when Windows 10 came out, almost two years ago.

How much time do they need to catch up?

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