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The LaTeX Fetish (2016)

danielallington.net

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Re: The LaTeX Fetish (2016)

#61

Post by Derbasti »

ucaetano wrote: post #30
ot wrote: post #17

I agree with the overall sentiment, but I don't think that any WYSIWYG alternative exists yet that: - Interacts well with version control: it is trivial to maintain a LaTeX document in a git repo, and the diffs are readable (especially with --color-words) - Makes it possible to programmatically generate formatted text, tables, graphs, possibly from external data sources, either with the internal macro language or thr…

I believe that Google Docs actually handles all of those.

How would Google Docs update a graph in a document from an external graphics file?

All my graphs and tables are generated in some programming environment, and updated frequently. In Word, I would have to right-click every single graph, select new source file, adapt graph size... Could Google Docs do this?

Re: The LaTeX Fetish (2016)

#62

Post by Derbasti »

taeric wrote: post #12

I had a few things about TeX versus LaTeX. I think the reality is nobody really tries writing TeX. But, ultimately my beef is the straw man that markup is bad because it is harder to read. That a graphical editor is superior because it is more readable. Instead, the advantage is that in the one you are only writing text and you are indicating special instructions to the computer. In the other, you only see what the c…

Also, he implies that LaTeX documents are always typeset in Computer Modern and the plain article template (which is ugly!). XeTeX can use all the same TTF/OTF fonts Word uses.

Oh, and let's not forget that Word's math renderer is gross.

Re: The LaTeX Fetish (2016)

#63

Post by cavDXF »

One passage made me a bit mad:

"[...], but for now it is enough to observe that people who don’t know how to use a particular tool very well are being told to throw that tool away and learn to use an entirely new one on the grounds that it will enable them to do things that they could have done at least as well with the old one – which is (when you think about it) a little peculiar if the aim is really to help people with their writing, and not (heaven forbid!) simply to evangelise for a community’s preferred way of doing things."

I'm sorry, but this is a bad argument and the worst life advice in the article. It's the same students in school tell all the time, when they question why they should learn math, though they are set to become an artist or editor or anything that seemingly does not involve math. You particularly go to college or university to learn NEW things. Even if they are things you probably won't need in the future and are seemingly obsolete.

While he does have a point that (La)TeX Users fetishize their tool of use, most of his arguments can be used on Word or any WISIWYG tool, too. The example he gives in point 4 is so arbitrarily chosen and his minimal example he thinks is better is just as ambigious and confusing as the LaTeX one. Most comments already mention what the author's real problem: Preference of tool.

Re: The LaTeX Fetish (2016)

#64

Post by acidburn1995 »

The real downside to LaTeX/TeX is when there's a hard page limit and you have to keep hacking your document and recompiling it.

Also, writing in LaTeX you're more likely to make grammar, usage and spelling errors since those tools are not coupled as well if at all to your editor---no green and red squiggles telling you that you need basic English remediation. Yeah yeah, there are things that are close, like flyspell mode, but they're generally inferior in terms of the precision/accuracy of the types of suggestions they give you.

All that said, 'markup iz hard' is not a compelling reason not to use it.

Re: The LaTeX Fetish (2016)

#65

Post by x0x0 »

obastani wrote: post #40
x0x0 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other huge advantage that you almost touched on is tex files are text, so you can source control them. This is particularly important if different people are working on different chunks of a document. You can kind of hack around this in word, but it's a giant pita.

Word has its own version control built in, which works pretty well. You can see all revisions, and step through and accept/reject. You can also do diff of two documents.

For 2 people, maybe; but even then you're doing the equivalent of emailing your entire repo (in a doc) back and forth. Which is how you end up with

   report.latest.2017_0713.new.with_additions.current.adamssversion.ready.lastchange.docx
being emailed...

And if you have 3 people collaborating, sooner or later someone makes edits to something besides HEAD and then there's a giant mess to sort out.

Re: The LaTeX Fetish (2016)

#66

Post by b0rsuk »

I feel offended by the omission of my personal favorite, reStructuredText (reST). It's a very robust and readable markup language, and can easily generate documents in HTML, Linux man, latex, pdf, odt and more.

If readability of LaTeX bothers you so much, use reST. Best of both worlds, really. I only roll up my sleeves with LaTeX when I need precise control over appearance, like writing a CV or a board game manual.

Re: The LaTeX Fetish (2016)

#67

Post by e12e »

ot wrote: post #17

I agree with the overall sentiment, but I don't think that any WYSIWYG alternative exists yet that: - Interacts well with version control: it is trivial to maintain a LaTeX document in a git repo, and the diffs are readable (especially with --color-words) - Makes it possible to programmatically generate formatted text, tables, graphs, possibly from external data sources, either with the internal macro language or thr…

Not sure about math, but dtp packages like framemaker are actually a half-decent alternative to LaTeX.

If you really want a word processor - I would recommend abiword over Ms word any day - but I still think you're better off in Lyx - but like all(?) Gui programs, it does seem to be easier to mess up your document (which could probably be fixed editing the underlying LaTeX - but if you're already comfortable doing that...).

Classical dtp packages will typically separate up text editing and layout. But then you need an editor to edit your text...

Re: The LaTeX Fetish (2016)

#68

Post by JelteF »

I've switched from writing latex to writing pandoc markdown. I then convert it to latex and then to pdf. This gets the same result as latex, but is much easier to type for common stuff like, sections, emphasis and verbatim. It also allows you to type "&" symbols anywhere.

When I require "advanced" stuff like tables and figures you can easily fallback to inline latex commands within you're markdown. It really is a significant improvement over plain latex and I haven't looked back.

Re: The LaTeX Fetish (2016)

#69

Post by e12e »

tcpekin wrote: post #57

I've spent a lot of time in both Word and LaTeX writing papers and reports in grad school, and nowadays, strictly use LaTeX. I feel like the author missed some crucial elements as to why people use the latter. First, references, cross-references, and citations. These are all shockingly simple in LaTeX. \ref or \cite is all you have to think about to cite papers or reference figures, tables, etc. In Word, I have used…

Looks like paddock has pretty decent support for docx - have you tried it and found going via pdf is better?:

https://jabranham.com/blog/2016/11/using-pandoc-export-to-wo...

Re: The LaTeX Fetish (2016)

#70

Post by pjmlp »

ot wrote: post #17

I agree with the overall sentiment, but I don't think that any WYSIWYG alternative exists yet that: - Interacts well with version control: it is trivial to maintain a LaTeX document in a git repo, and the diffs are readable (especially with --color-words) - Makes it possible to programmatically generate formatted text, tables, graphs, possibly from external data sources, either with the internal macro language or thr…

Docbook and DITA do, with WYSIWYG editors like

https://www.oxygenxml.com/

http://ditaworks.com/ditaworks-pro-easy-desktop-dita-authori...

http://www.xmlmind.com/xmleditor/

http://easydita.com/

Or for general purpose editing, Word like style, Framemaker

http://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker.html

Last time I used LaTeX for anything serious was in 1999.

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