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Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

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Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#61
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which case are you referring to? Lauren Southern was literally attempting to block ships (thereby endangering life) so that goes beyond "speech" in my book.

True, but it shows that Patreon will make it a priority to refuse service to people they disagree with. If I were a creator in Patreon who in my spare time engaged in such activities, it's clear that Patreon is willing to ban my account. After all, it's easy to argue that the money coming in from my patrons is supporting my activities. This is not good news for creators who are looking for a way to do something contr…

This is just false, they've made it a point not to block people they disagree with. This is a case of them blocking someone who was literally intentionally endangering the lives of people she disagreed with.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#62

If anybody at Patreon is reading this, here's some feedback. I spend maybe $20 a month on Patreon. The main thing keeping me from spending more is the interface makes artists appear more money-grubbing than they might want to. I don't want to scroll down someone's feed only to find half of the content is locked. This is a negative user experience and makes me want to click off the site and go do something else. Sugge…

On the flip side, not knowing about that content means you might not increase your pledge to a level where you could access it.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#63
post #2

I like patreon but at the same time I'm a bit uncomfortable with how the interaction aspect of it sometimes works. Lots of artists are essentially charging for interaction with them rather than a product. From the article: "In this system, it’s almost impossible to separate a work of art from its creator — or, at least, its creator’s public persona. Is there a future for someone who wants to be a musician, but not a…

Copying scales infinitely. Personality doesn't. Only through unscalable things can people get margins above zero in creative things. See e.g. streaming rates being a fraction of a cent but people will pay lots for live performances.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Causes havoc with societal cohesion. > Social cohesion is defined as the willingness of members of a society to cooperate with each other in order to survive and prosper. https://www.jstor.org/stable/3341872

I'm not convinced that having something in common with someone corrolates with cooperation.

[deleted]

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#65

I have seen so many content creators go full time and create awesome work because Patreon gives them a format to incentivize their followers to pay them. The economics are beautiful — turns out just 1,000 people (a pittance on internet mass media websites) donating $5 a month will totally change the way you run your life. And even better, these artists are independent in a way no artist has ever been before. You’re n…

I agree the model is the future, but a for profit American company running a proprietary web service cannot be the final solution.

On one hand, patronage perfectly replaces all the draconian reasons modern IP exists as it does. Paying people to make the stuff you want them to make versus having them paid by someone looking to profit off government enforced scarcity on the produced work is much, much better for everyone involved (except the middle men).

On the other, unless Patreon itself goes non-profit / public benefit like Kickstarter / decentralizes their platform it would be insane to let a private company dictate who gets to use the platform and who gets their supporters money, on top of the cut Patreon is taking - for some parties, the 5% Patreon fee only exists to get the lowered resistance to using the platform. Users who already have Patreon accounts set up are extremely more likely to support you there than on alternatives, and they then have mindshare. But that is all you are paying for if you don't also use Patreon as a content host - the mindshare effect. All the major tech companies now, all the investors, so much effort goes into creating a captive audience / market / userbase to extort. Patreon is no exception.

But the stakes are much, much higher with Patreon than with the mindshare factor around Facebook et al. For the same reasons I'd argue the stakes are higher with github. Livelihoods depend on these platforms. Entire business models are being built for individuals to live their lives with work involving what these services provide. And unlike Facebook, their whole point is this model, where people do their jobs on web services - either as payment providers or infrastructure. The same applies to etsy and ebay, pretty much. I'm extraordinarily against how proprietary and controlling the companies behind these ecosystems behave, because they dictate what is a viable business and what is not.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#66
post #49
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They banned a middle of the road conservative blogger, it has nothing to do with preventing harm. They got pressured by hardcore pro-government pro-mass immigration groups and caved. Very shameful and terribly stupid business decision making.

Which blogger are you referring to?

Lauren Southern. She was banned after throwing flares and attempting to block a ship (with no refugees on board) from leaving port to pick up refugees who she believes are being trafficked into Italy with the government's assistance.

She was arrested for participation in this act of protest and then Patreon made the claim that her activities could have caused loss of life (which is ridiculous).

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#67
post #51

Unless I'm missing something, they seem to only have a monthly contribution model. There are many times where I find a content creator helpful (for example a video tutorial on how to fix my broken washing machine), and I'd like to reward them. But I don't want to do it monthly, as I'll probably never watch another thing from them. So I'd like to be able to easily leave a one-time tip. Can Patreon do this, and it's ju…

Yeah, a donations per piece of content are obvious, but Patreon can't do it as the content (videos, music...) are hosted in other platform. Youtube, for example, could do it, but I guess it's not willing to stop milking the fat cow of ads, yet. I'm waiting for the time we will be able to donate as low as 5 cents even to a comment in HN.

Patreon works just fine per piece of content. I follow multiple artists who work on this model (e.g. https://www.patreon.com/scottbradlee, https://www.patreon.com/pomplamoose)

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#68

If anybody at Patreon is reading this, here's some feedback. I spend maybe $20 a month on Patreon. The main thing keeping me from spending more is the interface makes artists appear more money-grubbing than they might want to. I don't want to scroll down someone's feed only to find half of the content is locked. This is a negative user experience and makes me want to click off the site and go do something else. Sugge…

I don't think they're ever likely to do that; the response to locked content that you want to see is to decide whether or not to pay for it. This is like complaining that Amazon shows you products you can't afford.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#69

Unless I'm missing something, they seem to only have a monthly contribution model. There are many times where I find a content creator helpful (for example a video tutorial on how to fix my broken washing machine), and I'd like to reward them. But I don't want to do it monthly, as I'll probably never watch another thing from them. So I'd like to be able to easily leave a one-time tip. Can Patreon do this, and it's ju…

Patreon has the concept of donation per creation rather than per month, which works well for people who produce things less regularly.

It works pretty well for the ones I follow, but I guess it could be open to abuse if someone churned out a lot of stuff quickly (although I'd bet they'd lose a load of subscribers if they did that...)

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#70

I asked this before, but it wasn't really the place: 1. To those who donate to Patreons, how do you budget/think about/justify your donations? 2. Do you have a set budget? What if you really want to support someone suddenly, do you stop supporting someone else to do so, or reduce how much you give them? 3. When do you stop/reduce Patreon support? How long do you typically support someone? Until you feel they no longe…

1. There's currently only one creator I'm supporting, so its not that hard to justify for now. But considering that he puts out ~2 hours of quality video content per day, and I watch 90% of that, makes sense.

2. I like to compare it to my Netflix subscription. I'm pretty sure I watch this certain YT channel more than Netflix, so the $1 a month I give is a good deal IMO.

3. For most patrons, the goal is to enable the content to be created. My money goes towards the creator paying their bills (YT is their only job). Unless I stop caring about the content, or the creator finds an alternative revenue stream that lets them create full-time, I don't see myself cancelling.

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