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Real people don't need end-to-end encryption says UK Home Secretary

uk.businessinsider.com

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Re: Real people don't need end-to-end encryption says UK Home Secretary

#61

Post by jacquesm »

markburns wrote: post #29
mattmanser wrote: post #24

Basically she's saying chat apps in the UK shouldn't be allowed end-to-end encryption. So the terrorists will setup a chat system that look like payments. In the mean-time, the UK government will use our chat to identify harmless political dissidents, groom them online and then fail to incite them to violence. Given previous performance, they will meet some of their targets, get a few pregnant and then get sued 20 ye…

:) The Black Mirror of HN comments

Black mirror is fiction.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/jan/20/undercover-police...

Re: Real people don't need end-to-end encryption says UK Home Secretary

#64

Post by nsnick »

alistairSH wrote: post #57
nsnick wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The commons can withdraw from the ECHR. I am not saying that Parliament is not a check on ministers. I am saying that there is no check on Parliament. A simple majority of parliament can pass anything and there is no entity that can stop it from becoming law.

The Queen. A withholding of assent could bring a constitutional crisis, but it's possible [1]. 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Militia_Bill

"on the advice of her ministers"

Re: Real people don't need end-to-end encryption says UK Home Secretary

#65

Post by jdc0589 »

mattmanser wrote: post #24

Basically she's saying chat apps in the UK shouldn't be allowed end-to-end encryption. So the terrorists will setup a chat system that look like payments. In the mean-time, the UK government will use our chat to identify harmless political dissidents, groom them online and then fail to incite them to violence. Given previous performance, they will meet some of their targets, get a few pregnant and then get sued 20 ye…

that was beautiful.

Re: Real people don't need end-to-end encryption says UK Home Secretary

#66

Post by paganel »

ue_ wrote: post #27
nsnick wrote: post #12

The problem is largely the UK's lack of a constitution. There are no checks or balances in the UK. Parliament can literally do anything they want. The courts can't block Parliament. Parliament can just abolish the courts. The house of lords can't stop the house of commons, the commons can just override the lords. The queen won't veto the commons because she fears parliament will just abolish the monarchy.

As an anecdote related to this, there is a law that came into force in the UK in 2009 which made illegal drawings showing fictional characters who appear to be under 18 engaging in sex, or in the presence of sex. A similar law came into force in the United States (the PROTECT act), and it was stricken down by SCOTUS because a clause making illegal drawn pornography turns out (unsurprisingly) to violate the constituti…

> As an anecdote related to this, there is a law that came into force in the UK in 2009 which made illegal drawings showing fictional characters who appear to be under 18 engaging in sex

So you're saying that watching most hentai is borderline illegal in the UK? That's crazy.

Re: Real people don't need end-to-end encryption says UK Home Secretary

#67

Post by [deleted] »

AlexandrB wrote: post #20
mi100hael wrote: post #11

> Real people often prefer ease of use and a multitude of features to perfect, unbreakable security. So this is not about asking the companies to break encryption or create so called "back doors". Who uses WhatsApp because it is end-to-end encrypted, rather than because it is an incredibly user-friendly and cheap way of staying in touch with friends and family? Companies are constantly making trade-offs between secur…

Actually I think it's a pretty devious argument. This is effectively saying that most people value convenience over security & privacy. Given the track record of corporate surveillance and ad supported content this is absolutely correct. After all WhatsApp users are already OK with Facebook collecting their metadata for advertising purposes.

[deleted]

Re: Real people don't need end-to-end encryption says UK Home Secretary

#68

Post by [deleted] »

AlexandrB wrote: post #20
mi100hael wrote: post #11

> Real people often prefer ease of use and a multitude of features to perfect, unbreakable security. So this is not about asking the companies to break encryption or create so called "back doors". Who uses WhatsApp because it is end-to-end encrypted, rather than because it is an incredibly user-friendly and cheap way of staying in touch with friends and family? Companies are constantly making trade-offs between secur…

Actually I think it's a pretty devious argument. This is effectively saying that most people value convenience over security & privacy. Given the track record of corporate surveillance and ad supported content this is absolutely correct. After all WhatsApp users are already OK with Facebook collecting their metadata for advertising purposes.

[deleted]

Re: Real people don't need end-to-end encryption says UK Home Secretary

#69

Post by ue_ »

paganel wrote: post #66
ue_ wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an anecdote related to this, there is a law that came into force in the UK in 2009 which made illegal drawings showing fictional characters who appear to be under 18 engaging in sex, or in the presence of sex. A similar law came into force in the United States (the PROTECT act), and it was stricken down by SCOTUS because a clause making illegal drawn pornography turns out (unsurprisingly) to violate the constituti…

> As an anecdote related to this, there is a law that came into force in the UK in 2009 which made illegal drawings showing fictional characters who appear to be under 18 engaging in sex So you're saying that watching most hentai is borderline illegal in the UK? That's crazy.

I wouldn't say most, but a good proportion is, even possession of it. The catch is that the character has to give the "predominant impression" of being a child, so they can have non-child like features (such as slightly larger breasts, antennae (as was mentioned during the debate) etc.) and still be counted under the law. And you think you can encrypt to get away from it? No chance! If you refuse to hand over your keys to an encrypted volume you can face a maximum of 4 years in prison.

Re: Real people don't need end-to-end encryption says UK Home Secretary

#70

Post by Freak_NL »

ue_ wrote: post #27
nsnick wrote: post #12

The problem is largely the UK's lack of a constitution. There are no checks or balances in the UK. Parliament can literally do anything they want. The courts can't block Parliament. Parliament can just abolish the courts. The house of lords can't stop the house of commons, the commons can just override the lords. The queen won't veto the commons because she fears parliament will just abolish the monarchy.

As an anecdote related to this, there is a law that came into force in the UK in 2009 which made illegal drawings showing fictional characters who appear to be under 18 engaging in sex, or in the presence of sex. A similar law came into force in the United States (the PROTECT act), and it was stricken down by SCOTUS because a clause making illegal drawn pornography turns out (unsurprisingly) to violate the constituti…

People may care about (what others may consider) disgusting speech, or they may find it disgusting themselves but they care because of the principle of free speech, but the problem lies in coming out and saying so. Defending drawn porn of minors is harmful to your career at best — for some it can mean the end of relationships, getting ostracised by friends and family, and being persecuted, slandered, and stalked online by people who feel very strongly about such topics.

Even for the most battle-hardened politician near the end of their career, this issue is a minefield.

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