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Tesla factory workers pushing for a union send demands to Tesla's Board

businessinsider.com

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Re: Tesla factory workers pushing for a union send demands to Tesla's Board

#61

Post by frgtpsswrdlame »

evolve2k wrote: post #15
skybrian wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might want to read the linked article, because that's not what it says: http://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-tesla-factory-injur... "Musk then said he wants direct reports about every injury, without exception, going forward. He also plans to spend time on the assembly line."

Ok yes, on re-reading I think this article is talking bullshit. The sentence does read "but has since told employees to report injuries directly to him", but the linked article behind the article then explains that he wants all injuries reported to him. Subtly different, dirty journalism. I think my point on us living in a "Musk can't do wrong bubble stands" but on this occasion it seems shoddy reporting should mean…

...what? Dirty journalism? It's obviously just a misreading by the writer of this piece. The author never even suggests reporting injuries directly to the CEO is onerous or anything(which seems to be what you initially thought). It sorta seems like focusing on a small error and ignoring the more important point which is stuff like this:

"We have raised these issues repeatedly, but they remain unresolved,"

>but on this occasion it seems shoddy reporting should mean we can't make a strong comment on what he should be doing here.

Of course we can, there's a lot of articles other than this BI one. Musk should meet at least several of the things they're asking. Stopping anti-union behavior, laying out clear paths for promotion and improving the safety of his factories all seem like perfectly reasonable requests.

Re: Tesla factory workers pushing for a union send demands to Tesla's Board

#62

Post by [deleted] »

evolve2k wrote: post #15
skybrian wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might want to read the linked article, because that's not what it says: http://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-tesla-factory-injur... "Musk then said he wants direct reports about every injury, without exception, going forward. He also plans to spend time on the assembly line."

Ok yes, on re-reading I think this article is talking bullshit. The sentence does read "but has since told employees to report injuries directly to him", but the linked article behind the article then explains that he wants all injuries reported to him. Subtly different, dirty journalism. I think my point on us living in a "Musk can't do wrong bubble stands" but on this occasion it seems shoddy reporting should mean…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla factory workers pushing for a union send demands to Tesla's Board

#63

Post by lutorm »

enknamel wrote: post #59
halestock wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions are the reason we have "government enforced guarantees of decent treatment".

Yes. Now why do we need unions if their mission has been accomplished? Their purpose has been served.

You're right, clearly American workers are doing great.

Re: Tesla factory workers pushing for a union send demands to Tesla's Board

#64

Post by johansch »

This on top of the various disappointments (way too sparse interior (saying that Model 3 drivers won't need a dashboard because of the $5k "self-driving" feature...facepalm), way too expensive and needlessly grouped upgrades from the base model, way late EU deliveries) from the Tesla Model 3 launch...

Re: Tesla factory workers pushing for a union send demands to Tesla's Board

#65

Post by k-mcgrady »

Are unions demonised in the US in a similar vain to socialism? i.e. made out to be an evil that don't work despite working quite well in many, many other countries? I'm seriously curious about this as I'm quite taken aback at the general hate unions are getting ITT.

Re: Tesla factory workers pushing for a union send demands to Tesla's Board

#66

Post by tyingq »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #65

Are unions demonised in the US in a similar vain to socialism? i.e. made out to be an evil that don't work despite working quite well in many, many other countries? I'm seriously curious about this as I'm quite taken aback at the general hate unions are getting ITT.

Depends on who you ask. Airline pilot forums, for example, would have a much different stance.

The HN crowd probably thinks the current meritocracy is good enough, so unions seem like an unneeded expense.

You tend to appreciate it more if it might have direct benefits to you.

I suspect if you asked people who were laid off, or older developers experiencing age discrimination, you would see a different distribution of opinions.

There's also some history in the US of unions lining their own pockets, shady deals, coercing membership, organized crime connections, etc. None of it very recent though.

Re: Tesla factory workers pushing for a union send demands to Tesla's Board

#67

Post by djrogers »

Daishiman wrote: post #10
yohann305 wrote: post #8

This is important, we need to keep watching this closely because it might deter future big companies to manufacture in the USA. Think about Apple. This is one more thing to worry about on top of higher salaries than China.

Germany's manufacturing companies have massive union presence in everything they do and they're some of the most successful in the planet. Let's stop with this ridiculous demonization of unions. American corporations have chosen a confrontational model with unions and staff. It doesn't have to be this way. There are better models around if the owners of capital are willing to cooperate with workers.

Germany's unions and US unions operate under different laws, which grant different rights and power to the unions, and apply different restrictions to the employees and companies where unions are established. Comparing the two as if they are the exact same thing is specious at best.

Re: Tesla factory workers pushing for a union send demands to Tesla's Board

#68

Post by ugh123 »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #65

Are unions demonised in the US in a similar vain to socialism? i.e. made out to be an evil that don't work despite working quite well in many, many other countries? I'm seriously curious about this as I'm quite taken aback at the general hate unions are getting ITT.

Its political in the U.S. Business owners (large and small) tend to view them unfavorably and they tend to be Republicans. Democrats strive to support most unions since their members are largely working-class, blue collar constituents. Part of that has changed with Trump's election as he campaigned harder among those groups than did Clinton.

Public unions (police, fire, gov't workers, some teaching unions) are usually not politicized this way.

Re: Tesla factory workers pushing for a union send demands to Tesla's Board

#69

Post by kbenson »

AmVess wrote: post #54
enknamel wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a shareholder this would really put me off. Unions are one of the main reasons we had such a huge American auto crisis just a few years ago. I'm largely anti-union anyways. We should have government enforced guarantees of decent treatment. We shouldn't have a tyranny of the masses demanding ever more pay, benefits, etc until a company is bled dry.

The main reason why the auto makers had a hard time was the global recession. Unions had exactly nothing to do with it.

I think the inference is that automakers weren't able to respond appropriately or timely because they have contractual obligations to the the workforce.If cutting salaries is required to keep the company afloat, but that's not possible without a union negotiation, and the union has perverse incentives of some sort at play, that could cause real problems.

I'm not saying that's what happened, but it's not impossible to come up with plausible situations that could lead to the situation described. I wouldn't be so sure to immediately discount the role of a union in how well a company fares a crisis, just as I wouldn't be so sure to discount the behavior of the executives. Each company probably had its own unique mix of problems.

Re: Tesla factory workers pushing for a union send demands to Tesla's Board

#70

Post by jackvalentine »

enknamel wrote: post #59
halestock wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions are the reason we have "government enforced guarantees of decent treatment".

Yes. Now why do we need unions if their mission has been accomplished? Their purpose has been served.

> Now why do we need unions if their mission has been accomplished?

To ensure that those protections are enforced. To ensure those protections aren't rolled back. To advocate for their membership in a changing economy where their work won't remain static for 40 years.

Maybe it's because I'm not American but is it really so hard to see why having someone to advocate for the people in the economy is a good thing? After all, companies are just 'capital unions' that advocate for their members.

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