Live data from Hacker News

We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

news.nationalgeographic.com

61–70 of 247 posts

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#61

How to do running right: 1. Walk. 2. Increase pace until uncomfortable. 3. Back off pace until comfortable. Everything else is yak shaving.

Not if you want to be a competitive runner. Then you need to be able to run through the uncomfortable pace (in the context of proper training).

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#62
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, "pushing off with your heel" is not a thing. It's imprecise language, to be sure. I think it's more about where you're concentrating the force. If you look at the .gif that 'WalterSear shared down-thread, you'll see that the greatest force is just before the heel lifts, not after. That's the difference, I think, between "pushing off" with the heel or the forefoot: where, specifically, in the stride the maximu…

So can anyone sum up what the right way to run is?

Simple: observe a kid running before he gets used to padded shoes. That's the natural way of running and is similar to experienced runners.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#63
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So can anyone sum up what the right way to run is?

In my experience, here are the things to be actively controlling: don't hunch over (keep your back relatively straight), keep your arms bent at 90 degrees and swing them moderately (not too little, not too much), don't lock out knees, don't heel strike (strike with the blade or ball of your foot, whichever you prefer). If you're swaying side to side, you may need to place your feet closer to the centerline of your bo…

>swing them moderately (not too little, not too much)

Just had to point out this delicious tautology.

Anyway, I don't think you can sum up correct running form in words, or if you can then it's not useful. My advice would be: keep your tempo (steps/minute) around 170-180, do ankle mobility work and hip/glute strengthening. A high tempo lessens time in air each stride and thus velocity when hitting the ground, lowering impact on joints. Ankle/hip/glute work will stave off most muscular imbalances, which are the root cause of many form problems.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#64
post #9

The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong, beyond a passing mention of barefoot running, and some dissing of treadmills (which is hyperbolic and orthogonal to reality; you can run "correctly" or "badly" on a treadmill or on the street or trail). I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thin…

TL;DR, the gist of the "wrong" is that we've been trained by "trainers" (over-padded athletic shoes) to run in a straight-legged, heel-lands-first manner.

Any reputable running clinic will teach you to make contact with the ground at the middle of your foot with a slightly bent knee. That's just well understood, proper technique, regardless of footwear.

The real problem is people hitting the pavement without learning the basics of good technique because they think we're somehow "evolved" to just "do it right", which may be technically true but it's meaningless in practice.

Edit: cleaned up the tone a bit.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#65
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, "pushing off with your heel" is not a thing. It's imprecise language, to be sure. I think it's more about where you're concentrating the force. If you look at the .gif that 'WalterSear shared down-thread, you'll see that the greatest force is just before the heel lifts, not after. That's the difference, I think, between "pushing off" with the heel or the forefoot: where, specifically, in the stride the maximu…

So can anyone sum up what the right way to run is?

If all else fails, bend the knees and go down few cm. Then try to kick you butt with the heel going up. This will naturally lean you forward and your striking leg won't heel in first on the next strike.

Also, try to keep your head in the same virtual horizontal line. Head/torso going up and down can cost up to 40% more energy.

For extra points, your torso shouldn't be swaying, arms moving should be enough.

YouTube marathon runners for Olympics and look at some training videos for in depth info.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#66
post #59

The article mentions hunting by running as an evolutionary adaptation suggesting running distances, not necessarily sprinting. I have to imagine running like hell to escape predators as a major part of our evolutionary past. It would seem consistent with the effectiveness of high intensity interval training as well as how satisfying the feeling of exhaustion after running as fast as you can for a while.

Maybe mitigated by senses to spot dangers coming toward you from afar.

That said, I never run faster than when fleeing someone, boy do I go fast.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#67
post #9

The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong, beyond a passing mention of barefoot running, and some dissing of treadmills (which is hyperbolic and orthogonal to reality; you can run "correctly" or "badly" on a treadmill or on the street or trail). I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thin…

You're exactly right it's a big mess of conjecture. He's not done research or methodical testing. Nutrition, excercise, running, all seem to make anyone comfortable giving advice, with even the smallest amount of anecdotal personal experience. Why is it you can walk into a gym (or any place) and be told with such confidence the best way to run, eat, sleep? It's not that I don't want to hear it, I'd love to hear how t…

It's really commercial products that have to demonstrate they're providing a benefit compared to what's been the norm for millions of years. And they've never done so to my knowledge.

That said, if you've been particularly sedentary or aren't used to walking barefoot, you should definitely be careful in the transition. Individual physical histories, mobility, etc. have to be taken into account when recommending advice.

I do think kids should be encouraged to run barefoot as often as possible, though. Activity in general will set them up to avoid many of the mistakes of their sedentary elders.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#68
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. Thanks. Pushing off with the heel is actually specifically (if indirectly) part of what I'm working on with the bodyworker I mentioned, even. I really should have completed the thought. Thanks for catching and clarifying that.

Oh, another thing: $20 water shoes last only slightly less long than $100+ speciality 'barefoot' running shoes. :) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002Z7EOK8/ref=oh_aui_deta...

Not really true. I used to go through Walmart's $20 a pair a month walking. $60-$160 shoes I usually do 400 km running on them.

90+kg here.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#69
post #64
post #9

The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong, beyond a passing mention of barefoot running, and some dissing of treadmills (which is hyperbolic and orthogonal to reality; you can run "correctly" or "badly" on a treadmill or on the street or trail). I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thin…

TL;DR, the gist of the "wrong" is that we've been trained by "trainers" (over-padded athletic shoes) to run in a straight-legged, heel-lands-first manner. Any reputable running clinic will teach you to make contact with the ground at the middle of your foot with a slightly bent knee. That's just well understood, proper technique, regardless of footwear. The real problem is people hitting the pavement without learning…

Having been to a run clinic, I can absolutely call bull on the claim "Footwear is irrelevant, here.". At least the run clinic I went to assured me multiple times that my impression that wearing "trainers" specifically and greatly increases the difficulty of running "correctly" by striking with the middle of your foot with slightly bent knee. The large heel of virtually all training shoes makes landing in the middle of your foot extremely difficult - especially if you're unfamiar with that way of landing your foot.

Footwear does matter, at least until you know intuitively how to do the motions. I never did master a mid foot strike, the closest I was ever able to get was not landing on my heel quite as hard, essentially rolling off it quickly.

I liked the pair of vibrams I wore until I wore through the rubber sole, but they are a bit expensive, and my foot shape means me pinky toe doesn't really fit up into the to things, I rather thought it unnecessary overall to separate the toes. I've been on the lookout for good places to run entirely barefoot as well, but I'm not as daring as some. :)

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#70
post #8

I wish the interview was a bit more substantial, but I like the exercise should be free/gyms are bad (exaggeration mine) idea. Gyms are like skyways (eg in Minneapolis), or like mass transit stations surrounded by parking: they detract from the vibrancy of street life and subvert their purpose.

Huh. I would think most sidewalk users consider runners a nuisance. I certainly do. Street life is more vibrant when the people you're sharing the pathway with go about the same speed.

The purpose of a mass transit system is to reduce contention for housing by letting a city's population diffuse over a larger land area. Parking should amplify this purpose by expanding the amount of land served by the system cost-effectively (relative to more densely packing stations in low-density areas).

With regard to gyms specifically, in much of the country, weather extremes are enough to deter all but the most hardcore badasses from outdoor exercise for much of the year. My alternative to running indoors when it's 110 or -20 is to not run.

Post reply on HN