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Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review

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Re: Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review

#61

Post by _ph_ »

drawnwren wrote: post #56
_ph_ wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "small battery" still has more range than any other electric car out there, except the Bolt, which has a very small lead, but does not seem to be made in large numbers. And it matches the promised range (>215 miles). So it is great value for everyone, who does not need the 300 mile range. So you do get a sporty (0-60 <6s) 5 seated electrical sedan for 35k, which is great.

In what world is a sub 6s 0-60 sporty? The WRX gets 4.6, and I'd consider that the edge of sporty (also cheaper than the 3).

Maybe I am old, but the Model 3 gets 0-60 in about the same time the Porsche 911 used to. I would consider everything less than 8s "sporty". That does not mean, it is a race car, just something with quick performance. The fact that the full power is always instantly available without shifting or pressure by the turbocharger building up, closes the gap further.

Re: Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review

#62

Post by olex »

elmar wrote: post #53
sliken wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has regen, which is basically energy capture via electric brakes. But it also has regular breaks, most drivers don't use them much so they last a really long time.

they should have a small supercapacitor to capture the instant energy spikes of regen.

Not necessary, the battery can take very high charge currents for short amounts of time.

Re: Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review

#63

Post by mtgx »

> Tesla’s trying to change the vocabulary we’re using to describe it, from “kilowatt-hours” to “range.”

I understand why they did it -- Tesla's cars tend to be the most efficient EVs around, often by significant margins compared to competitors. But for someone who was hoping battery size competition would be the new megapixel race, this is quite disappointing to hear.

I suppose "range" could be used in the same way, but range is less "hard factual", as they can twist it however they want, unless they actually use the EPA and WLTP cycles.

Re: Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review

#64

Post by olex »

Roritharr wrote: post #46

I really hope the German government does something to make it more desirable for employees to want the Model 3 or similar cars as company cars. Just to explain the involved costs: There's two ways the government taxes company cars for employees, either you get to write a driving log, that then marks each route as either private or business and then you get the privately driven part taxed as income OR you just get 1%…

EVs (and PHEVs) already profit under the 1% rule - the base price gets reduced for the tax calculations, based on the battery size. I am absolutely planning on getting my Model 3 as a company car with the 1% regulation - my company has a Tesla leasing contract, and Tesla confirmed to me on the phone that I can convert my private Model 3 reservation to a company car, keeping the place in the queue and delivery schedule.

Re: Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review

#65

Post by makomk »

_ph_ wrote: post #39
Animats wrote: post #14

Nice, but $59,500 as shown. Not $35,000. The real-world price has crept up. The base model has a small battery. The Tesla Model S starts at $68,000. So the real-world price is down only 13% from the Model S.

The "small battery" still has more range than any other electric car out there, except the Bolt, which has a very small lead, but does not seem to be made in large numbers. And it matches the promised range (>215 miles). So it is great value for everyone, who does not need the 300 mile range. So you do get a sporty (0-60 <6s) 5 seated electrical sedan for 35k, which is great.

Except for the part where they're not actually making the 35k base model yet, sure. So in reality you might be able to get it for 35k at some unspecified point in the future, assuming they don't outright cancel the base model again.

Re: Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review

#66

Post by rightnow »

drawnwren wrote: post #56
_ph_ wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "small battery" still has more range than any other electric car out there, except the Bolt, which has a very small lead, but does not seem to be made in large numbers. And it matches the promised range (>215 miles). So it is great value for everyone, who does not need the 300 mile range. So you do get a sporty (0-60 <6s) 5 seated electrical sedan for 35k, which is great.

In what world is a sub 6s 0-60 sporty? The WRX gets 4.6, and I'd consider that the edge of sporty (also cheaper than the 3).

Yes 0-60 in sub 6 is sporty.

Re: Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review

#67

Post by kllrnohj »

drawnwren wrote: post #56
_ph_ wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "small battery" still has more range than any other electric car out there, except the Bolt, which has a very small lead, but does not seem to be made in large numbers. And it matches the promised range (>215 miles). So it is great value for everyone, who does not need the 300 mile range. So you do get a sporty (0-60 <6s) 5 seated electrical sedan for 35k, which is great.

In what world is a sub 6s 0-60 sporty? The WRX gets 4.6, and I'd consider that the edge of sporty (also cheaper than the 3).

The WRX is 0-60 in 5.5s. You might be thinking of the STI which is 0-60 in 4.7s (STI starts at $37k, too).

But 0-60 is not what defines sportiness, it's the total package including handling and driver engagement & feel.

Case in point: The Miata is one of the all time great sports cars, and it does not accelerate quickly.

Re: Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review

#68

Post by agumonkey »

randyrand wrote: post #36
mack1001 wrote: post #3

If everything goes right, Model 3 can change the business model of cars. Shift to value add + functionality upgrade based pricing versus a sales and service oriented model.

Also they own the repair market. You can't get your tesla serviced at a normal shop as the software, parts, and diagnostics are proprietary, so they could actually sell the car at a loss and make the big bucks on repairs. I don't want this. But its a viable business model.

The parts were supposed to be reduced compared to an ICE. What kind of important parts would they service ? (open question)

Proprietary diagnostics is not surprising, not a lot of cars right now have that amount of electronics and software, it's probably reverse engineering to get a glimpse of the car brain on your own.

Re: Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review

#69

Post by Roritharr »

olex wrote: post #64
Roritharr wrote: post #46

I really hope the German government does something to make it more desirable for employees to want the Model 3 or similar cars as company cars. Just to explain the involved costs: There's two ways the government taxes company cars for employees, either you get to write a driving log, that then marks each route as either private or business and then you get the privately driven part taxed as income OR you just get 1%…

EVs (and PHEVs) already profit under the 1% rule - the base price gets reduced for the tax calculations, based on the battery size. I am absolutely planning on getting my Model 3 as a company car with the 1% regulation - my company has a Tesla leasing contract, and Tesla confirmed to me on the phone that I can convert my private Model 3 reservation to a company car, keeping the place in the queue and delivery schedul…

Sadly that taxbreak runs out in 2022 and until then declines every year, while not being that substantial. It's tied to battery capacity and maxes out at currently 8000€ from the new price. So with a Model S in a base configuration without any features for example you have to tax 600€ per month instead of 680€. That's a 12% reduction in tax burden, nothing that would push me towards a car in that price range, especially if I had to then accept less features for a similar price. For a Model 3 its more favorably pushing it up to 20-25%, but once again, compared to a similar priced gas guzzler, the feature/cost ratio isn't there, even if you compare it to relatively expensive BMWs or VWs.

I'm currently looking for a new company car and own Tesla stock so look at these numbers quite closely because I'd love to get a Tesla, but it isn't cost effective to get one if you can't factor in the gas savings and maintenance savings.

Re: Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review

#70

Post by chc »

prostoalex wrote: post #50
jimmcslim wrote: post #12

Is there a HUD or do I have to move my eyes to the centre console to check my speed? Seems like bad ergonomics to me... and whereas the road ahead is perhaps still in my peripheral vision when I check my speedo, its less so if I am glancing at the centre console (which maybe has a bunch of other distracting things on it as well?)

Elon mentioned the interior was redesigned with full autonomy in mind. I guess the use case "driver maintaining the vehicle speed via non-autonomous pedal pressure while wanting to check the vehicle speed because he did not enable cruise mode" is a weird edge case for them. On autopilot the car will stick to the assigned speed (with adaptive cruise control slowing down or speeding up depending on the traffic in front…

It's pretty bizarre to treat driving without an $8000 options package as a weird edge case. If autonomous driving is that central, it seems like it should be a basic feature, not an upgrade.
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