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What happened to studying?

boston.com

61–70 of 81 posts

Re: What happened to studying?

#64

The ugly truth is that kids don't study because they aren't expected to. Let's face it as long as their kid gets that perfect GPA and is obedient enough most parents don't give a damn that they actually learn something. To my peers it's just a ritual they need to complete in order to have a good "life" whatever that is. In fact, my teachers have scolded me for trying to derive stuff on my own. It is quite obvious to…

"No one expects them to create things, that's left to those nuts like me (someone said this to me point-blank)."

I distinguish the two types of students by whether or not they need calculus to proceed. The ones who don't are just serving time.

Re: What happened to studying?

#65
Sounds like the Japanese system. Work your ass off in high school and nighttime cram schools to get into the best colleges, then coast through college, partying, drinking, recuperating from a hellish youth that sucked up all your passion for learning, then graduate and get a job based on your top college's pedigree.

Re: What happened to studying?

#66
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, but facts are easy to learn once you understand the concepts. I can memorize that a quicksort is O(n log n) and a binary search is O(log n) all day long. However, if I understand big O notation, I can figure them out on my own and (in theory) never have to memorize what the complexity of an algorithm is again. Besides that, I shouldn't have to pay $300 a credit hour (for a cheap public school nonetheless) to…

I think that's a great argument, but only for some cases, in some disciplines . No amount of conceptual knowledge will tell you what the irregular 3rd person singular present active subjunctive of 'esse' is in Latin (it's 'sit'). No amount of conceptual knowledge will tell you what year the 1st Punic War began (264 bce) or where Vergil was born (modern Mantova - a town called Andes in his time). Some things, you have…

I dunno about Latin, but for most languages, the best way to learn what the verb forms are is to read and converse a lot, and attempt to write using sentences to the limits of your ability, with someone competent to correct (but ideally not to penalize) your errors.

Learning grammar completely abstracted from use is a masochistic and ultimately rather pointless exercise, whose main use as far as I can tell is providing a conveniently simple way to assess effort expended in language courses without having to assess real fluency (which takes more work for a teacher). Harshly grading grammar mistakes discourages people from pushing at the limits of their ability, because it rewards using only words and grammatical constructions that the student is completely confident in. The goal of any language course should be to encourage as much real language use as possible, because that’s the only way to real fluency, including fluency with correct grammar constructions.

The knowledge of the year the first Punic War began will be learned pretty well if you go read 50 letters written during the first Punic War, instead of looking at dates on flash cards. But reading those letters will ultimately be a lot more engaging and relevant to other circumstances. The year itself is only a useful fact insofar as it provides a point of reference by which other events can be compared. Memorizing a bunch of dates for their own sake is in my opinion wrongheaded, especially for non-specialist students (that is, primary students up through undergraduates). Much better to understand the causes and progress of the 1st Punic War than to spout off 100 dates of battles.

No one gives a damn where Vergil was born except the people who live in that town, and maybe some other poets who refer to the town and expect their readers to know the reference. In other words, the main reason to know where Vergil was born is just to impress people in the “in crowd” of snooty scholars, or some teacher with backwards priorities. Much better to spend your time carefully reading Vergil’s works, thinking hard about them, and coming up with something interesting to say.

Your elseif vs. elif spelling is a pretty stupid (in my opinion) thing to intentionally spend time memorizing. Go build some stuff in your language, looking up the parts you need. Every once in a while go through some language references or tutorials, etc. I guarantee you can learn the syntax of most programming languages without ever making a single flash card.

Now, there are some things you need to memorize:

* Medical symptoms and diagnoses, drug interactions, etc. if you’re a physician.

* Lines of a play, if you’re an actor; this holds for other kinds of performances too, such as music, etc.

* Basically, anywhere where knowing the precise fact is the goal. This does happen fairly often in the world; a supermarket cashier might need to memorize which aisle has the bread, for example, and a good teacher should try his best to learn the names of his students.

The thing is, often knowing the precise fact is assessed, and is the explicitly stated goal for students, but is not actually a good goal, pedagogically. Students who do not question the stated goals of their schooling are in my opinion harming their own educations, even if they are able to ace everything by official standards.

Re: What happened to studying?

#67
post #34
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"if you want students to study then you should eliminate grades. grades simply encourage them to game the system. of course, gaming the system is a very valuable real world skill." Grades many times give you the push you need to succeed. Without them, many people wouldn't bother studying. A similar thing that happened recently in many public schools is the elimination of winners and losers in sports games (every game…

> Without them, many people wouldn't bother studying. With them, many people don't bother studying.

Yup, pretty much what the article is all about. Only a handful of schools, like Yale Med, don't have grades.

Re: What happened to studying?

#68

They just barely touch on the important part, which is whether or not students are achieving the same mastery of the subject matter. If professors are making courses too easy, that's the thing to fix. Butt-in-seat hours are only a symptom, and focusing on this (especially after acknowledging it's not the end goal!) is oddly Puritan.

I think it is a factor though, even with efficiency improvements in studying over time I doubt the average student can spend half the time and possibly get an understanding as deep as before across all subjects.

For some specific subjects though this may be a natural progression with technology improvements, certain things may just now be simpler.

We also have to look closely at where the students are coming from, I think the trend starts in high school, an increasing amount of people anecdotally seem to be developing the bad study habits here. Myself included, I think I have improved as time has gone on but I still don't feel most classes are giving challenges worth of close attention and study when I have much more interesting stuff on the side.

Re: What happened to studying?

#69
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sad, but probably true. One of the classes I remember the most was one that was set up to give engineering students an introduction to the workplace. So, you had business-like tasks (most of which were centered around Excel) and you were graded by whether you met, exceeded, or didn't meet expectations. In one assignment, I made a really fancy Excel spreadsheet (it was a producer/consumer type problem, and my 1s for p…

I agree that college should not be the end of learning. However, I wouldn't want to be taught by a professor that says "that employers don’t generally care about the content of job applicants’ classes; they’re more interested in whether an applicant graduated, was able to meet deadlines, and work within a bureaucracy." If they truly believe that, it will reflect in their courses. Instead of trying to teach their subj…

Yeah, in this situation they are forgetting that not everyone in the class is doing it just to essentially check off a box in their degree process. Recently there was an email sent out that was basically like "do data mining, it's big in industry", giving that subject a miss because the lecturer is terrible but also because he's so industry focused.

I'm not planning on continuing in academia but I'm certainly not wanting to take classes that are just there to fulfil degree requirements without going deep into the subject and providing interesting and challenging content.

Re: What happened to studying?

#70
post #21
post #15

I've always figured that if I had to study for a test, there was something wrong. A test should judge if you know the underlying concepts, not how many facts you've memorized.

And think how much better you'd "know the underlying concepts" if, in addition to listening in lecture and staring blankly when they ask questions about the reading, you read a section in advance, did some practice problems, noodled around with assorted Wikipedia pages on the topic, talked to and sparred with your friends about the material, and dropped by the professor's office to nail down some esoteric edge case?…

Or a straight copy of of an exam from the previous 2 years with possibly a few numbers changed.
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