China may match or beat America in AI • Hacker News Board

Re: China may match or beat America in AI

#61

Post by dragonwriter » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 7:05 PM UTC

erva wrote: post #60

ChuckMcM wrote: post #35

Here I was looking for the Dr. Strangelove equivalent of the "AI Gap" :-) Given that in the next four years it is likely that more than half of the PhDs awarded by top US schools are awarded to foreign nationals[1], and our current government policy is to restrict immigration as much as possible, we are on a path to insuring that soon the world will have a much better pool of talent to draw on to do the research than…

Not to sound like an anti-intellectual, but it could be a mistake to assume that innovation comes from academia. Nassim Nicholas Taleb has a convincing chapter (I think it is Chapter 13: Lecturing Birds to Fly) in his book "Antifragile" about this very thing. Then there are cultural differences that could be at play concerning innovation. It is a general observation that east asian cultures tend to suppress risk-taki…

> Not to sound like an anti-intellectual, but could it be a misnomer to assume that innovation comes from academia.

The use of “misnomer” in that sentence is, itself, misnomer. What you describe is, perhaps, a mistake, but not in naming.

Re: China may match or beat America in AI

#62

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 7:07 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #61

erva wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to sound like an anti-intellectual, but it could be a mistake to assume that innovation comes from academia. Nassim Nicholas Taleb has a convincing chapter (I think it is Chapter 13: Lecturing Birds to Fly) in his book "Antifragile" about this very thing. Then there are cultural differences that could be at play concerning innovation. It is a general observation that east asian cultures tend to suppress risk-taki…

> Not to sound like an anti-intellectual, but could it be a misnomer to assume that innovation comes from academia. The use of “misnomer” in that sentence is, itself, misnomer. What you describe is, perhaps, a mistake, but not in naming.

[deleted]

Re: China may match or beat America in AI

#63

Post by strin » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 7:10 PM UTC

throwawayecchai wrote: post #6

Chinese Government is all over the Silicon Valley these days trying to get into US AI developments, using all sorts of nefarious tricks. A case in point. There is a conference, SYNC 2017, in Computer History Museum tomorrow (July 14th), organized by Pingwest, which itself seems like a Chinese Gov. front if you look at the team. They have several good speakers, and some Chinese, Gov fronted, fake VC types. Till 2 days…

(Chinese citizen here)

I do know a decent number of top Chinese VCs looking into investments in Silicon Valley. Those funds are typically started by Chinese entrepreneurs who made a fortune in things like the internet wave or real estates.

There do exist branches of Chinese government, or nation-owned organization making investments in US. But they are not the top VCs, and I haven't seen any of them taking a stake in a top US AI startup.

There are a couple of reasons why Chinese money is flooding into silicon valley. First, there is too much cash in the domestic market and not enough good tech investments to make. Second, there is a fear that Chinese economy might crash someday so having oversea investment diversifies the risk.

Re: China may match or beat America in AI

#64

Post by strin » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 7:12 PM UTC

brndnmtthws wrote: post #5

They've got a lot more people, so it's just a matter of time. That, and there aren't any real "trade secrets" when it comes to AI. It's all just computer code, and anyone with an Internet connection can teach themselves how to use Wikipedia and run TensorFlow.

Google's PageRank code is a trade secret.

Re: China may match or beat America in AI

#65

Post by yohui » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 7:15 PM UTC

Leader2light wrote: post #55

ChuckMcM wrote: post #35

Here I was looking for the Dr. Strangelove equivalent of the "AI Gap" :-) Given that in the next four years it is likely that more than half of the PhDs awarded by top US schools are awarded to foreign nationals[1], and our current government policy is to restrict immigration as much as possible, we are on a path to insuring that soon the world will have a much better pool of talent to draw on to do the research than…

Immigration is not the solution. Do you have any idea how restrictive China is on immigration?

China also restricts democracy and access to the internet, but that's not to say the US wouldn't be harmed by a move in that direction. China has different strengths and weaknesses; the US would be ill advised to give up its own strengths.

Re: China may match or beat America in AI

#66

Post by erva » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 7:23 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #61

erva wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to sound like an anti-intellectual, but it could be a mistake to assume that innovation comes from academia. Nassim Nicholas Taleb has a convincing chapter (I think it is Chapter 13: Lecturing Birds to Fly) in his book "Antifragile" about this very thing. Then there are cultural differences that could be at play concerning innovation. It is a general observation that east asian cultures tend to suppress risk-taki…

> Not to sound like an anti-intellectual, but could it be a misnomer to assume that innovation comes from academia. The use of “misnomer” in that sentence is, itself, misnomer. What you describe is, perhaps, a mistake, but not in naming.

A wordsmith I am not. Thanks for the correction.

Re: China may match or beat America in AI

#67

Post by nullnilvoid » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 7:26 PM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #35

Here I was looking for the Dr. Strangelove equivalent of the "AI Gap" :-) Given that in the next four years it is likely that more than half of the PhDs awarded by top US schools are awarded to foreign nationals[1], and our current government policy is to restrict immigration as much as possible, we are on a path to insuring that soon the world will have a much better pool of talent to draw on to do the research than…

Arguably, it is better for the entire humanity if PhDs and other talent are spread out across the whole world rather than monopolized by one single nation. That's how knowledge gets transferred and the whole world improves.

Re: China may match or beat America in AI

#68

Post by bmc7505 » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 7:27 PM UTC

throwawayecchai wrote: post #6

Chinese Government is all over the Silicon Valley these days trying to get into US AI developments, using all sorts of nefarious tricks. A case in point. There is a conference, SYNC 2017, in Computer History Museum tomorrow (July 14th), organized by Pingwest, which itself seems like a Chinese Gov. front if you look at the team. They have several good speakers, and some Chinese, Gov fronted, fake VC types. Till 2 days…

Recently attended the AI for Good conference hosted at the UN ITU, and two of the Gold Sponsors were really sketchy looking "AI" startups with Chinese VC funding, WikiOmni and Word4App: https://itu4u.wordpress.com/2017/05/23/why-wikiomni-and-word...

Re: China may match or beat America in AI

#69

Post by iamcurious » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 7:40 PM UTC

flyinglizard wrote: post #57

Leader2light wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immigration is not the solution. Do you have any idea how restrictive China is on immigration?

The point is that educating the best minds of the world and then expelling them to their origin countries is not a wise practice.

It is a very wise practice from a soft power perspective.

Re: China may match or beat America in AI

#70

Post by rrggrr » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 7:57 PM UTC

callmeal wrote: post #52

rrggrr wrote: post #29

70% of the US budget is inexorably allocated to entitlements, interest on debt, and welfare. The rubicon of 100% US Debt-to GDP will soon be crossed. Many US states are hanging on to solvency by a thread. Corporations and banks have sequestered hundreds of billions in cash waiting for signs of US fiscal stability. And what does the media want to talk about? Russian spies and Chinese A.I. Rome burns and everyone is as…

You are way off. 10% goes to welfare. 6% goes to interest on debt. 16% goes to defense. 25% goes to CHIP/medicare/medicaid. (25% to social security, but that has a separate tax inflow and is a net positive to the budget.) see: https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-budget/policy-basics-w...

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/aug/...