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US Lifts Laptop Ban on Etihad, Emirates and Turkish Airlines

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Re: US Lifts Laptop Ban on Etihad, Emirates and Turkish Airlines

#61

Post by cstejerean »

paulpauper wrote: post #40

Laptop bans are such a horrible idea. Yes, entrust a $2000+ dollar piece of hardware (with important software and files) to someone who is barely paid enough to care what happens to it.

As someone who flew Emirates to the US during the ban I can assure you that laptops were well taken care of. There was special staff in Dubai to take inventory of laptops and other electronics, securely shrink wrap and pack them, and then seal the bag.

Upon arrival in the US there were again special staff that would hand you your laptop box after checking ID and boarding pass, which an airline seal still on it.

At no point did I feel like my laptop was handled by someone who doesn't care about what happens to it.

Re: US Lifts Laptop Ban on Etihad, Emirates and Turkish Airlines

#62

Post by unknownsavage »

waqf wrote: post #54
NelsonMinar wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just don't care, also deliberate theft. It's been a big problem with TSA agents in the United States.

That doesn't necessarily mean it would have been a problem with middle-eastern airlines. They knew that the entire profitability of their US routes depended on well-off business travellers continuing to trust them — and unlike the TSA, they operate in a competitive market.

There are plenty of opportunities for things to be stollen from checked in luggage at the arriving airport.

This actually happened to me on a flight into the US, with an expensive set of german kitchen knives in checked-in. In the US my suitcase was taken out of the normal line for extra checking (I guess because the knives showed up in an xray?).

They then later gave me my suitcase, but the entire knife set was missing. No documentation that it was taken. No one even cared. No recourse. And nothing came of it.

If I have something valuable that I couldn't take in my carryon again, I'd rather just DHL than trust the TSA to not steal it.

Re: US Lifts Laptop Ban on Etihad, Emirates and Turkish Airlines

#63

Post by oliv__ »

clamprecht wrote: post #17

I'm not sure if this has hit the US news, but from a few days go in Argentina news, the US is going to require special scanners in the airports in other countries (Spanish article, English translation below): http://www.iprofesional.com/notas/252113-computadoras-tecnol... "The United States government will strengthen security measures for people traveling to that country with computers and tablets. Official sources f…

That sounds like a great way to sell so-called "state-of-the-art scanners".

Re: US Lifts Laptop Ban on Etihad, Emirates and Turkish Airlines

#64

Post by wahern »

wildmusings wrote: post #23
bogomipz wrote: post #19

>"The department of Homeland Security initiated the ban in March. It came into effect covering all flights to U.S. destinations from 10 airports in the Middle East, including major travel hubs like Dubai, Abu Dabi and Dohar." So how would a ban at flights originating at these airports prevent someone from exploiting this on a flight with a layover in this airport i.e while the plane was in route to one of these 10 ai…

The government has made pretty clear over the last few months that the reason for the ban was intelligence that jihadist groups had made progress towards developing a laptop bomb. It is pretty reasonable for them to withhold details in order to protect sources and intelligence-gathering techniques.

> It is pretty reasonable for them to withhold details in order to protect sources and intelligence-gathering techniques.

Trump already let slip that it was the Israelis who uncovered the plot.

Re: US Lifts Laptop Ban on Etihad, Emirates and Turkish Airlines

#65

Post by jbg_ »

rigden33 wrote: post #15
vxxzy wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is so much about it being a "bomb". I'm gonna take a stab and say it may be related to the ability to take over the control system of the plane via a laptop/wifi [1]. It would make sense to some degree if the US knew that an airline had planes that were "unpatched". [1]: http://observer.com/2016/02/midair-hack-shows-the-dangers-of...

No it's almost certainly due to the recent intel that found that ISIL had developed a way to hide bombs in laptops to evade airport security. http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/31/politics/terrorist-laptop-bomb... http://heavy.com/news/2017/05/isis-laptop-bomb-threat-planes...

Let's see... they developed a way to hide a bomb powerful enough to bring down an airliner inside a laptop, but not a way to buy tickets for flights other than a few specific routes on a few specific airlines? If you believe that, I've got a bridge to sell you.

Re: US Lifts Laptop Ban on Etihad, Emirates and Turkish Airlines

#66

Post by sqeaky »

grenoire wrote: post #25
bogomipz wrote: post #19

>"The department of Homeland Security initiated the ban in March. It came into effect covering all flights to U.S. destinations from 10 airports in the Middle East, including major travel hubs like Dubai, Abu Dabi and Dohar." So how would a ban at flights originating at these airports prevent someone from exploiting this on a flight with a layover in this airport i.e while the plane was in route to one of these 10 ai…

The reason why that information is not disclosed is not because they don't want their citizens to know. They don't want others to know; that's when it would actually compromise the security.

That is a perfectly valid reason in isolation. The problem with that in aggregate is that we don't know when the government or abusing its power.

When is the government telling the truth or not and what policies lead to these decisions. This is compounded by the feeble attempts we have made at performing oversight on this resulting in things that looks like failures such as the whole FISA court system. I don't know if FISA is a failure or not in terms of respecting the interests of Americans, because their trials are secret and that is a failure to protect the interests of Americans.

Re: US Lifts Laptop Ban on Etihad, Emirates and Turkish Airlines

#67

Post by rigden33 »

jbg_ wrote: post #65
rigden33 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's almost certainly due to the recent intel that found that ISIL had developed a way to hide bombs in laptops to evade airport security. http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/31/politics/terrorist-laptop-bomb... http://heavy.com/news/2017/05/isis-laptop-bomb-threat-planes...

Let's see... they developed a way to hide a bomb powerful enough to bring down an airliner inside a laptop, but not a way to buy tickets for flights other than a few specific routes on a few specific airlines? If you believe that, I've got a bridge to sell you.

I admit it's a little odd. Relatedly, the UK also instituted a similar laptop ban as well. If not the laptop bomb threat, then what do you think it is? http://www.wired.co.uk/article/uk-laptop-ban-flights-explain...

Re: US Lifts Laptop Ban on Etihad, Emirates and Turkish Airlines

#68

Post by sqeaky »

bogomipz wrote: post #44
grenoire wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason why that information is not disclosed is not because they don't want their citizens to know. They don't want others to know; that's when it would actually compromise the security.

Yes that's the official "war on terror" party line you are parroting - "we can't tell you for your own good." Please provide one single example where communication and sharing of information with one's fellow citizens made them less safe.

Any time that when that information falls into the hands of attackers and enabled them to make more effective plans.

I do not know if this is that case, but there is a class of information that when made public reduces safety. The problem is not with telling any one individual, you or I would probably do little with the information, but once "everyone" knows it potential attackers could use the information.

If it were something like the times or flights we suspected the terrorists would attack and they got that information I hope you can see how that would make things worse.

I think the real solution is valid oversight, not this FISA non-sense we have now. Actually, I don't know if its non-sense because its so secret I can't tell if its doing its job or not, so I must presume its not.

Re: US Lifts Laptop Ban on Etihad, Emirates and Turkish Airlines

#69

Post by jbg_ »

rigden33 wrote: post #67
jbg_ wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's see... they developed a way to hide a bomb powerful enough to bring down an airliner inside a laptop, but not a way to buy tickets for flights other than a few specific routes on a few specific airlines? If you believe that, I've got a bridge to sell you.

I admit it's a little odd. Relatedly, the UK also instituted a similar laptop ban as well. If not the laptop bomb threat, then what do you think it is? http://www.wired.co.uk/article/uk-laptop-ban-flights-explain...

I know some (maybe even most) of the affected airlines have significant government ownership. It could therefore be a way of gaining political leverage.

It could also be a leg-up to American carriers competing on those routes. Another commercial option is a tactic to require implementation of security practices that involve American-made equipment.

I'm sure there are many other possibilities that make more sense than the public explanation, which only seems to make sense if we assume the people protecting us are incredibly stupid. I don't think they are, so the public story is probably just a cover.

Re: US Lifts Laptop Ban on Etihad, Emirates and Turkish Airlines

#70

Post by sqeaky »

jbg_ wrote: post #69
rigden33 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I admit it's a little odd. Relatedly, the UK also instituted a similar laptop ban as well. If not the laptop bomb threat, then what do you think it is? http://www.wired.co.uk/article/uk-laptop-ban-flights-explain...

I know some (maybe even most) of the affected airlines have significant government ownership. It could therefore be a way of gaining political leverage. It could also be a leg-up to American carriers competing on those routes. Another commercial option is a tactic to require implementation of security practices that involve American-made equipment. I'm sure there are many other possibilities that make more sense than…

What if instead of being stupid they were artificially limited in some other way?

Perhaps, they wanted a more comprehensive laptop ban but were stopped by someone.

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