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EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

eubusiness.com

61–70 of 241 posts

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#61
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Purchasing power for many non-subsistence goods has gone up. Not so for rent, food etc. as far as I know. Purchasing power for subsistence goods would't go up due to the malthusian trap. The same way you have induced demand from wider roads to have more cars.

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user2305...

It says housing inflation was around 50-60% but for example in London it has been 400% so this can be very dependent on where you live.

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user2305...

It says housing inflation was around 50-60% but for example in London it has been 400% so this can be very dependent on where you live.

That graphic is US centric.

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#63
post #53
post #51

I totally support this. I accidentally cracked the touch screen of my car radio console. The car is nothing special, a Ford Mondeo that is a few years old. Cost to replace touch screen module: more than the entire value of the car! That is insane. Effectively, if I want to claim from insurance - crack the touch screen (it is a replaceable module) and have to scrap the entire car. In this case, I managed to get a repl…

How does regulation solve the issue that replacing e.g. the touch screen may take many man hours of labor, whereas making the car itself took proportionally less, thus making replacements more expensive? Your experience is a symptom of a high degree of automation in one area (car manufacturing) and the absence in another (repairs), and regulation does not change that.

Much of that can be mitigated in product design. The amount of labor needed to replace something is a function of the extent to which being serviceable is a design goal.

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#64
post #53
post #51

I totally support this. I accidentally cracked the touch screen of my car radio console. The car is nothing special, a Ford Mondeo that is a few years old. Cost to replace touch screen module: more than the entire value of the car! That is insane. Effectively, if I want to claim from insurance - crack the touch screen (it is a replaceable module) and have to scrap the entire car. In this case, I managed to get a repl…

How does regulation solve the issue that replacing e.g. the touch screen may take many man hours of labor, whereas making the car itself took proportionally less, thus making replacements more expensive? Your experience is a symptom of a high degree of automation in one area (car manufacturing) and the absence in another (repairs), and regulation does not change that.

From the source article:

> robust, easily repairable and good quality products: "minimum resistance criteria" to be established for each product category from the design stage

My console was not "easily repairable".

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#65
post #53
post #51

I totally support this. I accidentally cracked the touch screen of my car radio console. The car is nothing special, a Ford Mondeo that is a few years old. Cost to replace touch screen module: more than the entire value of the car! That is insane. Effectively, if I want to claim from insurance - crack the touch screen (it is a replaceable module) and have to scrap the entire car. In this case, I managed to get a repl…

How does regulation solve the issue that replacing e.g. the touch screen may take many man hours of labor, whereas making the car itself took proportionally less, thus making replacements more expensive? Your experience is a symptom of a high degree of automation in one area (car manufacturing) and the absence in another (repairs), and regulation does not change that.

[deleted]

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#66
post #58
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extending the minimum warranty can help to make more durable products.

I don't want to have to pay more for durable products. Please let me choose whether I want to buy extended warranty -- many manufacturers already offer it, but I'm not interested it in.

I know that most people change their phones often but there are products that are expensive like washing machine, gas heaters that should be designed from the start to last 5 years or more. If 2 companies build washing machines and they need to increase the warranty time, the one that can do that with less price increase would sell more, the one that planned them to break down faster would lose and have to make a new dessign.

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#67
post #58
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extending the minimum warranty can help to make more durable products.

I don't want to have to pay more for durable products. Please let me choose whether I want to buy extended warranty -- many manufacturers already offer it, but I'm not interested it in.

I know that most people change their phones often but there are products that are expensive like washing machine, gas heaters that should be designed from the start to last 5 years or more. If 2 companies build washing machines and they need to increase the warranty time, the one that can do that with less price increase would sell more, the one that planned them to break down faster would lose and have to make a new dessign.

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#68

Manufacturers should be made responsible for disposal. This would provide an incentive to make products last and be repairable.

We have that exact law here in Ontario, Canada, and the products are just as disposable as everywhere else. Even worse, just like every other regulation ever, it is negotiated in such a way that it favours some manufacturers over others, and it was most welcomed by said manufacturers.

Pretty sure there are laws like this in lots of other places, and it in no way appears to encourage repair. In fact, you could make an argument that it discourages repair: since repairable machines are typically heavier, it is cheaper for the manufacturer to pay the deposit on a lighter machine which is not repairable. You can't really get the bureaucracy to determine how repairable your product is either. If you do, the rules will ultimately be just as arbitrary as weight, and not thorough enough to generate the intended effect. In addition to being useless, these regulations also increase the cost of goods, congratulations.

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#69
post #53
post #51

I totally support this. I accidentally cracked the touch screen of my car radio console. The car is nothing special, a Ford Mondeo that is a few years old. Cost to replace touch screen module: more than the entire value of the car! That is insane. Effectively, if I want to claim from insurance - crack the touch screen (it is a replaceable module) and have to scrap the entire car. In this case, I managed to get a repl…

How does regulation solve the issue that replacing e.g. the touch screen may take many man hours of labor, whereas making the car itself took proportionally less, thus making replacements more expensive? Your experience is a symptom of a high degree of automation in one area (car manufacturing) and the absence in another (repairs), and regulation does not change that.

This is the fundamental issue, yes. Some thoughts:

A large part of the discrepancy is not automation, but cheap labour in the East where many of our products are made. Regulation can help redress than inequality.

Repair is so expensive because it's made to be. It shouldn't take several hours of skilled labour to replace an easily broken component like a touchscreen - it should be snap-in. Regulation can address that by mandating reparability.

It's also worth thinking about why we consider replacement being cheaper than repair to be a problem at all - if you trust the market, what's so horrible about that? Real time saver right?

Answer: the price of new goods does not reflect their full environmental and social cost. The switch in your toaster breaks - you buy a new one for a fiver instead of repairing the switch. The old one goes in a landfill. A quantity of non-renewable resources like oil and metal are used up; a the increased demand for these things contributes to the deaths of miners, and people who live near the factories and refineries. Fuel is burned to deliver the new toaster to you, and the Earth's temperature goes up a teeny-tiny fraction. None of these things are included in the price. Regulation can help that too.

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