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Volvo admits its self-driving cars are confused by kangaroos

theguardian.com

61–70 of 73 posts

Re: Volvo admits its self-driving cars are confused by kangaroos

#61
post #56

I'm not sure what system Volvo has gone for, but most isn't this just a "train more kangaroo data into the neural network" thing to fix?

From the article it seems the hopping it what makes it tricky. Their model is that the distance to the animal is the same as the distance to where their feet touch the ground. When an animal is in the air the feet appear to touch the ground further away due to perspective.

Re: Volvo admits its self-driving cars are confused by kangaroos

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the general feeling about taking the meat after a collision? Where I grew up, people would butcher the animal if it's not terribly destroyed. Around here there's a wild hog problem, which are edible but not very tasty, so the local wildlife agency picks them up and they're used in soup kitchens to feed the homeless.

Not being Australian: would it be legal? I grew up in Alaska and when you ran into a moose you weren't allowed to keep it. Instead there was a volunteer crew that was called to clean it up, compensated with the corpse (which is how I grew up on moose).

In France this is illegal for at least two reasons:

- health: most people don’t know how to process raw meat or recognize a sick animal (rabies or other illnesses)

- safety: those animals are tough, it’s not uncommon for boars to wake up from the concussion before, while, or after being loaded in a car, and the last thing you want while driving is a wild, fearful, angry animal suddenly waking up and ripping your car apart from the inside while you’re driving (happens).

- law: hunting is regulated so as to control wild animal population growth, killing some has to be reported one way or another.

I suspect there is another historical reason, akin to why you can be prosecuted for attempting to obliterate your own existence: your own being is basically owned by the Republic (used to be the King), so committing suicide is a prejudice to the State. I can see something like this being in effect: wild animals are a property of the State, and killing them even with your car is poaching. That may be why you’re supposed to turn the corpse to the Gendarmerie (cops branch of the military).

(IANAL, correct me if I’m wrong, that just what I’ve been taught as a kid growing in a rural area full of forests)

Re: Volvo admits its self-driving cars are confused by kangaroos

#63

I'm kind of worried by the fact that the system judges depth based on visual cues (like a human with one eye closed does) instead of actual depth sensing hardware, to the point that the system needs to recognise kangaroos specifically. Shouldn't the car stop for any obstacle, even ones it doesn't recognise? They surely can't expect to train it on every possible type of debris.

[deleted]

Re: Volvo admits its self-driving cars are confused by kangaroos

#64
post #4
post #2

Doesn't this just suggest that computer vision is practically impossible to perfect, and that cameras + LIDAR would be far better for safely driving a car? You need actual distances to objects, not just fuzzy error-prone inferences.

The obvious counter-example are humans. On a more realistic level, stereoscopic vision seems like a pretty decent way to get distances.

Your obvious counter example might need General Intelligence.

Re: Volvo admits its self-driving cars are confused by kangaroos

#65
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't sound like the problem is it's detecting specific animals, but in how it's detecting the distance -using the ground as a reference for things that aren't standing on the ground. I wonder how it it handles low-flying birds.

When I learned t drive I was instructed not to mind smaller critters as the avoidance maneuver (steering away one way or the other or heavy breaking) is more likely to cause a serious accident than the collision with the small critter.

You needn't swerve but there's no harm in braking.

Re: Volvo admits its self-driving cars are confused by kangaroos

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the general feeling about taking the meat after a collision? Where I grew up, people would butcher the animal if it's not terribly destroyed. Around here there's a wild hog problem, which are edible but not very tasty, so the local wildlife agency picks them up and they're used in soup kitchens to feed the homeless.

I have actually heard of people saying they salvage kangaroo (or buffalo) meat after a collision. The tail is considered a delicacy. Of course, that is assuming you are still OK after hitting one - Kangaroos are BIG critters and can do considerable damage to the vehicle (and occupants) in a collision.

Can't say about kangaroos, but many (did I say many?) years ago I was on a car when we hit a wallaby by accident.

Wallabies are like 1/5 or less in size/weight when compared to kangaroos, they are small animals I would say comparable in size/weight to a large rabbit.

The car was a not so small car, a Holden Torana, a V8 4.2 liters, if I recall correctly, still the hit was very hard and the australian guy that was driving didn't manage to keep the car on the road and we ended up in the field nearby.

No physical harm to anyone on the car, but the fender and front of the car were seriously damaged.

I wouldn't have wanted to have hit a full-sized kangaroo instead of the poor little wallaby.

Re: Volvo admits its self-driving cars are confused by kangaroos

#67
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are extremely unpredictable in their change in direction and they will often get panicked by the sound of the car and jump in front rather than away from the car like most other animals. Unpredictable motion is ideal for evading upright preditors with spears, but no so good for collision avoidance with fast moving metal objects.

Put in another way, unpredictable motion is good for avoiding what's trying to hit you. Not good for avoiding what's trying to miss you.

So, when kangaroo jumps in front of your car your best chance to avoid hit would be to try to steer your car towards it and let kangaroo's instinct do the rest? :)

Re: Volvo admits its self-driving cars are confused by kangaroos

#68

Lots of human drivers are confused by kangaroos and kangaroos are confused by cars especially at night. You see an awful lot dead kangaroos on the side of the road in rural Australia. As an aside, kangaroos in motion are one of the most efficient and elegant mammals. I love watching them bounding away at speed effortlessly dodging scrub and trees - more like flight than running.

It's probably complicated by the fright response in kangaroos which is to jump in a random direction. They don't all head in the same direction which is why when you drive past a mob feeding on the verge you often get a couple jumping onto the road in front of you.

Re: Volvo admits its self-driving cars are confused by kangaroos

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the general feeling about taking the meat after a collision? Where I grew up, people would butcher the animal if it's not terribly destroyed. Around here there's a wild hog problem, which are edible but not very tasty, so the local wildlife agency picks them up and they're used in soup kitchens to feed the homeless.

I have actually heard of people saying they salvage kangaroo (or buffalo) meat after a collision. The tail is considered a delicacy. Of course, that is assuming you are still OK after hitting one - Kangaroos are BIG critters and can do considerable damage to the vehicle (and occupants) in a collision.

Eating kangaroo is relatively common in Australia. We quite often brag that we are the only country that eats its national coat of arms.

It is quite divisive though, some people enjoy the taste, myself included, but others have a strong dislike. It is high in protein so often enjoyed by gym-going types.

Re: Volvo admits its self-driving cars are confused by kangaroos

#70

Lots of human drivers are confused by kangaroos and kangaroos are confused by cars especially at night. You see an awful lot dead kangaroos on the side of the road in rural Australia. As an aside, kangaroos in motion are one of the most efficient and elegant mammals. I love watching them bounding away at speed effortlessly dodging scrub and trees - more like flight than running.

What's the general feeling about taking the meat after a collision? Where I grew up, people would butcher the animal if it's not terribly destroyed. Around here there's a wild hog problem, which are edible but not very tasty, so the local wildlife agency picks them up and they're used in soup kitchens to feed the homeless.

If it's a fresh kill, yeah if you're really that keen it might be worth cutting the tail off with an axe and cooking it up pretty immediately.

But Roo's need to be bled properly otherwise the meat goes to hell. You can get away with eating fresh tail, but really a roadkill roo wouldn't be very nice.

Plus, after 30 minutes in the sun, it'd be no good for anyone other than the flies.

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