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Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

mcmansionhell.com

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Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#61

Post by supergirl »

ceejayoz wrote: post #53
supergirl wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wouldn't it make even more problematic? you risk not only lawyer fees but a fine too? maybe if the fine was % of assets, so the corporation risks 10% of assets if they lose, but that will never happen.

I think it'd be problematic in the grey-area cases (of which there are many). IANAL but I wouldn't mind judges being able to inflict loser-pays in egregious cases like this, though - where a big corporation knows they'll get their way because it's too expensive to fight.

the court is there to resolve disputes. why should it punish people for trying to settle things? the fundamental problem is the law is not mathematical (if it would be we wouldn't need lawyers) so the outcome also depends on how much resources you put in.

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#62

Post by wyldfire »

ceejayoz wrote: post #32
tareqak wrote: post #22

It would be nice to see what communication Zillow sent to McMansion Hell in order to both corroborate the claim and to see what law Zillow is invoking that Zillow would use in a potential lawsuit [0]. [0] https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/corroborate

She has posted the letter: https://twitter.com/mcmansionhell/status/879429709251137537 Among other things, it claims the content is not fair use material, and threatens with the CFAA.

The real teeth of the CFAA are from federal prosecutors, but it does allow for civil actions to get damages/injunctive relief.

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#64

Post by [deleted] »

eli wrote: post #12
imkevinxu wrote: post #3

On what grounds can they sue? Isn't this pure free speech? It looks like the only references to Zillow ever are citations that the photos come from their website http://www.mcmansionhell.com/search/zillow

You can sue (or threaten to sue) someone for almost any reason. I know wouldn't want to fight $600 million company, even if the law was on my side.

[deleted]

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#65

Post by ceejayoz »

supergirl wrote: post #61
ceejayoz wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it'd be problematic in the grey-area cases (of which there are many). IANAL but I wouldn't mind judges being able to inflict loser-pays in egregious cases like this, though - where a big corporation knows they'll get their way because it's too expensive to fight.

the court is there to resolve disputes. why should it punish people for trying to settle things? the fundamental problem is the law is not mathematical (if it would be we wouldn't need lawyers) so the outcome also depends on how much resources you put in.

There's a major difference between trying to settle things in good faith and things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_lawsuit_against_publ... suits.

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#66

Post by OJFord »

kefka wrote: post #59
imkevinxu wrote: post #3

On what grounds can they sue? Isn't this pure free speech? It looks like the only references to Zillow ever are citations that the photos come from their website http://www.mcmansionhell.com/search/zillow

Well, it's now immortalized as a hash in IPFS. Good luck censoring that. http://gateway.ipfs.io/ipfs/QmeLsfKxF4dhmyX2FSGotaDPmMEqe8p3... UPDATED HASH: http://gateway.ipfs.io/ipfs/QmUayNU49TWHMid6pSEBSKPAHsxJkTnd... There's still a few hits going to Tumblr and fonts.gstatic.com , but all the actual content is safely inside IPFS and being served from in there. I'll let someone else rip the external calls out.

It tries to load the images (that Zillow is purportedly threatening the author over) from Tumblr though...

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#67

Post by [deleted] »

ceejayoz wrote: post #32
tareqak wrote: post #22

It would be nice to see what communication Zillow sent to McMansion Hell in order to both corroborate the claim and to see what law Zillow is invoking that Zillow would use in a potential lawsuit [0]. [0] https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/corroborate

She has posted the letter: https://twitter.com/mcmansionhell/status/879429709251137537 Among other things, it claims the content is not fair use material, and threatens with the CFAA.

[deleted]

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#68

Post by Garfgon »

clavalle wrote: post #19
JohnTHaller wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likely copyright over the photographs. Realistically, it's fair use since it's transformative and used for critique. Unfortunately, fair use laws only apply in the US if you have lots of lawyer money, so they don't really matter for normal folks.

I wonder if Zillow even has standing to sue over copyright because, as far as I can tell, Zillow gains the right to use agents' photos but there is no copyright transfer.

I believe in some cases a licensee also has standing to sue over copyright; e.g. if the licensee is granted an exclusive license.

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#69

Post by uses »

I totally understand the whole "McMansions are bad architecture" thing...

However, something about it really bothers me. There was an episode of 99% Invisible where the guest was talking about their McMansions blog and how it makes fun of these Horrid dwellings. The whole thing stank of classist elitism. The Wrong Type of people were getting the chance to design and build large houses, and of course they're applying their Bad Taste that's neither Genuine nor Authentic. They don't know about the traditions of Fine Architecture so of course they were doing it all wrong...how embarrassing for them!

Edit: It sounds like a lot of the way I interpreted this could come from my background as someone who's transitioned from lower working class to solidly middle class, and so I'm applying that defensively even though (thank God!) I don't live in an Embarassing McMansion. In fact I'm now considering the blog as more of an educational campaign where an expert in the field is railing against problematic and widespread trends in that field. It has less to do with transitions between class and more to do with the decline of an important field of engineering and design as something that people value. I think the word McMansions itself is a bit of a disservice to the purpose of the blog, with its "slobs vs snobs" / Beverly Hillbillies connotations.

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#70

Post by oh_sigh »

smhenderson wrote: post #41
Analemma_ wrote: post #5

I kinda figured this was coming sooner or later. McMansion Hell is using unquestionably copyrighted photos, but claims that they fall under Fair Use. I think that's true (but IANAL), but fair use is an affirmative defense that has to hold up in court.

And just because he's right doesn't mean court cases aren't expensive. I hope he either gets the attention he needs to raise some funds or gets noticed by someone willing to help him pro bono. It's a good concept for a site. On it's surface it looks down right like community service. It's a bit snarky here and there but, man, some of those houses invite that kind of criticism. I don't see him selling anything, just a…

s/he/she/
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