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Older fathers have 'geekier sons'

bbc.co.uk

61–70 of 118 posts

Re: Older fathers have 'geekier sons'

#61
I've also read that older fathers see increased odds of a child with mental illness.

Example: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/27/health/mental-illness-ris...

I guess the article here also says it:

> Repeated studies have shown that older sperm is more prone to genetic errors and children are more likely to develop autism and schizophrenia.

Re: Older fathers have 'geekier sons'

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would also seem that they're less likely to play sports with their children. I wonder if there's a way to isolate athleticism from geekiness.

Plenty of men with single mothers* learn to play sports just fine (see many NBA and NFL players). *This is not to say that women don't play sports with their sons, but to say that it's silly to assume that all young fathers play sports with their sons.

> Plenty of men with single mothers* learn to play sports just fine (see many NBA and NFL players).

True but I'd bet that many of these men came from urban areas where the community had services in place for younger people to find older mentors, and generally stay out of trouble.

I'm from eastern Kentucky originally and was lucky to have a fantastic stepfather, but I watched a lot of kids grow up with not much support past their single parent of either gender, and only a few of those I knew made it to 18 going anywhere near the correct trajectory. Outside of churches, there wasn't a lot of taxpayer-funded support for kids with single parents as it was probably a "moral" issue to the local politicians who still find the idea of a single parent family abhorrent and prefer to ignore it.

Re: Older fathers have 'geekier sons'

#63

Sure seems like correlation to me. Older fathers are more likely to have established careers, establishing higher socioeconomic status, affording a lifestyle that engenders "geekiness".

Those things are all true of older mothers, too, yet maternal age had no effect. And, likewise, no similar effect was seen on daughters, either from older fathers or older mothers.

The fact that the result only holds in this one case suggests that the result is statistically bogus.

Re: Older fathers have 'geekier sons'

#64
post #29

Older fathers correlate with an increased risk of autism. https://www.autismspeaks.org/science/science-news/study-ties...

You can't just post that without posting actual data.

http://jamanetwork.com/data/Journals/PEDS/15536/poa60107t2.p...

It increases from a .6% chance to a 1.7% chance.

Considering most parents only have one to three kids that's really good chances.

Re: Older fathers have 'geekier sons'

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those things are all true of older mothers, too, yet maternal age had no effect. And, likewise, no similar effect was seen on daughters, either from older fathers or older mothers.

The fact that the result only holds in this one case suggests that the result is statistically bogus.

Or that it's a product of a Y-linked genetic trait.

Or that it's a product of the socio-environmental factors discussed, but other socio-environmental factors like cultural gender roles mitigate it to undetectable levels in the mother » child and parent » daughter cases.

Re: Older fathers have 'geekier sons'

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that controlling for variables can produce a conclusion of causation. (I'm posting half because I think this is correct, and half because I'd love to hear someone more knowledgeable about statistics confirm or deny this :) ) I think that controlling for variables means that you've tried to reduce the impact of other variables on the two that you're interested in. From Wikipedia: "In statistics, controll…

> I don't think that controlling for variables can produce a conclusion of causation. Controlling for variables can rule out alternative causal relationships (shared causes between A and B rather than A causes B) as explanation for correlation, but can't rule out coincidence. They strengthen the case for these plausibility of a causal explanation.

In my view, controlling for a variable X doesn't directly strenghten a causal claim, but allows to "rule out" another plausible explanation. In a way it shows that the observed effect is not accounted for, even if we take X into account, which means that it could be that the father's age influences filial geekiness. It could still be the case that another variable (that was not controlled for) accounts for the effect.

Re: Older fathers have 'geekier sons'

#67
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That could be true, but older fathers also have more defective genes, are less able to play with their children, etc. The children are just genetically "weaker", have more physical issues and participate in far less physical activity because their father is so old. This is anecdotal evidence but one of my friends had a very old dad. He had issues which forced him to wear bifocals and hence he didn't participate in sp…

What do you mean by "defective genes"?

Genetic mutations. As you get older, you accumulate more genetic damage, which can be passed on to children. It's fairly well-studied that children of older parents are more susceptible to genetic disorders.

Re: Older fathers have 'geekier sons'

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that the result only holds in this one case suggests that the result is statistically bogus.

Or that it's a product of a Y-linked genetic trait. Or that it's a product of the socio-environmental factors discussed, but other socio-environmental factors like cultural gender roles mitigate it to undetectable levels in the mother » child and parent » daughter cases.

Or the he previous comment about lifestyle is applicable but only manifests itself for fathers as a result of society only recently starting to transition to women being able to be breadwinners.

Re: Older fathers have 'geekier sons'

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would also seem that they're less likely to play sports with their children. I wonder if there's a way to isolate athleticism from geekiness.

Plenty of men with single mothers* learn to play sports just fine (see many NBA and NFL players). *This is not to say that women don't play sports with their sons, but to say that it's silly to assume that all young fathers play sports with their sons.

I also know plenty of geeks who played sports through high school.

Re: Older fathers have 'geekier sons'

#70

I read an article a couple of months ago about autism being linked to delayed fatherhood: http://www.nature.com/news/fathers-bequeath-more-mutations-a... . Being different was something that touched near and dear to my heart like many self-conscious geeks and my old man didn't have me until he was 41. I know N=1... but when you're debating with your friends whether or not this ( http://imgur.com/m52Wo4a ) can be clas…

How would that not be a sandwich?
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