Does this mean Apple may actually implement Service Workers and Web Push in the next Safari?? :)
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Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11
61–70 of 167 posts
Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can't get many WebRTC projects/test pages to actually work on the new Safari preview. Is there anywhere they list the specific features implemented from the spec?
Try running https://test.webrtc.org/
Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11
#63Apple and Microsoft waited five years to deploy this thing. Given how quickly it was implemented and adopted by other browsers, I have to wonder what their motives were for deliberately not integrating it; because frankly they could've done it pretty quickly at any point in the last five years. I remember having to integrate WebRTC through cordova (thank goodness somebody did it first) a couple years ago, and wonderi…
WebRTC is a total pain in the arse in practice - maybe I've just had a bad experience, but it seems to be a ludicrously over complicated solution to the problem, and still ends up unreliable.
I don't think that implementation of it is anywhere near as easy as you think.
Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
They're not holding up progress. They have different objectives, and chief among them is power efficiency. Chrome eats up a lot more battery life than Safari.[1] So did Flash (among other conflicts), and I think we all accept now that "holding that up" was good for the web in the long run. Apple tends to take a little longer and suffer a little short-term pain to get it right in the long run. [1] https://daringfireba…
Apple has absolutely kneecapped web technologies. Mobile Safari has simple, egregious bugs that have been open for years. We're talking about things like being able to crash the browser with CSS or file selection, etc. It's impossible to make the case that Apple is just rejecting features for the sake of the user. The next question is why, and you'll need some creativity to come up with any other answer than pointing…
My company scrapped a hybrid project entirely because of UIWV/WKWV/Mobile Safari bugs. I can't believe anyone would have a different opinion after using it for any large project.
Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's the $1B question. The obvious application is the video conferencing style hangouts, Skype (which are using WebRTC already). The nice thing about having video conf capabilities in the browser is that you can embed it in any web page and start do interesting things with it - like interactive lectures. Improved gaming networking is another vertical. We've built Peer5 (W17) on top of WebRTC to create a P2P CDN for…
I doubt you'll see gaming pick up WebRTC for many of the reasons that Glenn build netcode.io[1]. It's overly complex and doesn't guarantee UDP which is a non-starter for most games. [1] http://new.gafferongames.com/post/why_cant_i_send_udp_packet... / https://github.com/networkprotocol/netcode.io
It guarantees UDP for all of the cases when UDP would work. You can choose to not use TCP if you like, though I think most games would actually desire a TCP fallback.
Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's the $1B question. The obvious application is the video conferencing style hangouts, Skype (which are using WebRTC already). The nice thing about having video conf capabilities in the browser is that you can embed it in any web page and start do interesting things with it - like interactive lectures. Improved gaming networking is another vertical. We've built Peer5 (W17) on top of WebRTC to create a P2P CDN for…
I doubt you'll see gaming pick up WebRTC for many of the reasons that Glenn build netcode.io[1]. It's overly complex and doesn't guarantee UDP which is a non-starter for most games. [1] http://new.gafferongames.com/post/why_cant_i_send_udp_packet... / https://github.com/networkprotocol/netcode.io
> ... there is a trend away from peer-to-peer towards client/server for multiplayer games ...
Really? Why? It seems obvious to me that communicating directly with other players would be faster than relaying messages through a server. Even if the server and the clients are all in the same building, the server is still going to add the latency of its entire stack. Unless that server is acting as a very simple stream-oriented traffic controller, then surely its latency is in the 5-20 millisecond range, at least?
I know WebRTC is complex, but minimal latency is such a critical feature for multiplayer gaming, that surely, if it works at all, then it is worth the trouble?
Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11
#67Still only supports proprietary codecs from what I understand. So not "full".
Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
They're not holding up progress. They have different objectives, and chief among them is power efficiency. Chrome eats up a lot more battery life than Safari.[1] So did Flash (among other conflicts), and I think we all accept now that "holding that up" was good for the web in the long run. Apple tends to take a little longer and suffer a little short-term pain to get it right in the long run. [1] https://daringfireba…
Apple has absolutely kneecapped web technologies. Mobile Safari has simple, egregious bugs that have been open for years. We're talking about things like being able to crash the browser with CSS or file selection, etc. It's impossible to make the case that Apple is just rejecting features for the sake of the user. The next question is why, and you'll need some creativity to come up with any other answer than pointing…
Posts like this genuinely confuse me.
If all Apple cared about was the App Store then why do they continue to hire WebKit engineers and build new features ? It would be easier just to fork WebKit, never add anything new and deliberately make it so unusable that everyone rushes to apps.
Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
Apple has absolutely kneecapped web technologies. Mobile Safari has simple, egregious bugs that have been open for years. We're talking about things like being able to crash the browser with CSS or file selection, etc. It's impossible to make the case that Apple is just rejecting features for the sake of the user. The next question is why, and you'll need some creativity to come up with any other answer than pointing…
This is just mince . There are no long-standing crashes in Safari that "crash the browser with CSS or file selection". And from a purely anecdotal point of view, I've found it the least annoying browser to use by far.
I think you missed the Mobile part. Do a search for "Mobile Safari file selection crash" – that one minor but severe example was still happening as of earlier this year and for at least four years prior. Mmm, mince!
Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
I doubt you'll see gaming pick up WebRTC for many of the reasons that Glenn build netcode.io[1]. It's overly complex and doesn't guarantee UDP which is a non-starter for most games. [1] http://new.gafferongames.com/post/why_cant_i_send_udp_packet... / https://github.com/networkprotocol/netcode.io
> ... there is a trend away from peer-to-peer towards client/server for multiplayer games ... Really? Why? It seems obvious to me that communicating directly with other players would be faster than relaying messages through a server. Even if the server and the clients are all in the same building, the server is still going to add the latency of its entire stack. Unless that server is acting as a very simple stream-or…
The server also handles arbitration which can add a ton more latency if you need to determine it via consensus from all the other clients.
His lib is based on real-world pain that many game devs have hit trying to integrate WebRTC. It's the same reason you see Lua thrive while V8/etc are rarely a part of a game engine.