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Video Analysis of Erdogan's security detail brawl in Washington

nytimes.com

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Re: Video Analysis of Erdogan's security detail brawl in Washington

#61

Post by logicallee »

lifeformed wrote: post #51
santaclaus wrote: post #29

> He repeatedly kicked Ms. Usoyan, 34, as she lay on the ground. According to New Jersey records, Mr. Yildirim is 50 and manages three companies in that state. Mr. Yildrim does not appear to have diplomatic immunity, so why aren't assault and battery charges being levied against him?

I don't think diplomatic immunity protects the rest of them either. It's not a free license to commit any crimes they want.

>It's not a free license to commit any crimes they want.

That's exactly what it is. The hosting country can ONLY just tell them they are "persona non grata". (Expel them.)

Of course, they may face charges in their home country or be extradited. Their home country can waive their diplomatic immunity - and do so for their diplomats acting criminally in other countries.

But 100% of all of these actions are on the home country. The host country can do absolutely nothing besides expel them or complain to their home country.

Let me know if you see anything to the contrary here or anywhere else online:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomatic_immunity

Re: Video Analysis of Erdogan's security detail brawl in Washington

#62

Post by gech »

logicallee wrote: post #61
lifeformed wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think diplomatic immunity protects the rest of them either. It's not a free license to commit any crimes they want.

>It's not a free license to commit any crimes they want. That's exactly what it is. The hosting country can ONLY just tell them they are "persona non grata". (Expel them.) Of course, they may face charges in their home country or be extradited. Their home country can waive their diplomatic immunity - and do so for their diplomats acting criminally in other countries. But 100% of all of these actions are on the home c…

Wars were started over less. Maybe a little more patriotism is called for nowadays

Re: Video Analysis of Erdogan's security detail brawl in Washington

#63

Post by gech »

logicallee wrote: post #61
lifeformed wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think diplomatic immunity protects the rest of them either. It's not a free license to commit any crimes they want.

>It's not a free license to commit any crimes they want. That's exactly what it is. The hosting country can ONLY just tell them they are "persona non grata". (Expel them.) Of course, they may face charges in their home country or be extradited. Their home country can waive their diplomatic immunity - and do so for their diplomats acting criminally in other countries. But 100% of all of these actions are on the home c…

Wars were started over less. Maybe a little more patriotism is called for nowadays

Re: Video Analysis of Erdogan's security detail brawl in Washington

#64

Post by krapp »

Kenji wrote: post #26
anigbrowl wrote: post #12

Top-notch editing work and presentation, really impressive. Don't want to get diverted into politics but I was appalled by not only the incident itself but the fact that Turkey then summoned the US ambassador in Ankara to complain about DC police trying to break up the fight. This is not a healthy sign for the future.

>Don't want to get diverted into politics I don't think this has much to do with politics. If you're right, left or center, libertarian or authoritarian, doesn't matter, it's basic morality that this unwarranted aggression is wrong and must have consequences. If I was the president under which such a thing happened, I would make sure the consequences are severe enough that it would never happen again under my term.

> If I was the president under which such a thing happened, I would make sure the consequences are severe enough that it would never happen again under my term.

This particular president offered to pay the bail for anyone who "kicked the crap" out of protesters at one of his campaign rallies... I doubt he even sees it as a problem.

Re: Video Analysis of Erdogan's security detail brawl in Washington

#65

Post by bigdubs »

muse900 wrote: post #57

I found this video a few days ago on reddit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWxm-bxgP9g One thing that I found intriguing as an engineer is that Ertogan's bodyguards etc are trying to shout louder than the protesters. At first I thought ok thats natural, 2 parties have a disagreement and then each tries to be louder. The sound from Ertogan's trained personnel thought isn't exactly an argument. You'll hear through th…

DJT is not far off.

Re: Video Analysis of Erdogan's security detail brawl in Washington

#66

Post by krapp »

gech wrote: post #62
logicallee wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's not a free license to commit any crimes they want. That's exactly what it is. The hosting country can ONLY just tell them they are "persona non grata". (Expel them.) Of course, they may face charges in their home country or be extradited. Their home country can waive their diplomatic immunity - and do so for their diplomats acting criminally in other countries. But 100% of all of these actions are on the home c…

Wars were started over less. Maybe a little more patriotism is called for nowadays

>Wars were started over less.

We're still dealing with the consequences of a war we started for apparently no reason other than than wanting to do it. Maybe we should raise the bar for going to war, and not keep lowering it.

Re: Video Analysis of Erdogan's security detail brawl in Washington

#67

Post by gech »

muse900 wrote: post #57

I found this video a few days ago on reddit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWxm-bxgP9g One thing that I found intriguing as an engineer is that Ertogan's bodyguards etc are trying to shout louder than the protesters. At first I thought ok thats natural, 2 parties have a disagreement and then each tries to be louder. The sound from Ertogan's trained personnel thought isn't exactly an argument. You'll hear through th…

Trump

Re: Video Analysis of Erdogan's security detail brawl in Washington

#68

Post by lostlogin »

gech wrote: post #62
logicallee wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's not a free license to commit any crimes they want. That's exactly what it is. The hosting country can ONLY just tell them they are "persona non grata". (Expel them.) Of course, they may face charges in their home country or be extradited. Their home country can waive their diplomatic immunity - and do so for their diplomats acting criminally in other countries. But 100% of all of these actions are on the home c…

Wars were started over less. Maybe a little more patriotism is called for nowadays

Patriotism is a part of what this was about. Turning down the dial would be more more likely to help in my view.

Re: Video Analysis of Erdogan's security detail brawl in Washington

#69

Post by contingencies »

mattalbie wrote: post #59
all_usernames wrote: post #35

America is in a sad, sad state when there is no recourse for something like this. What are we, afraid of diplomatically insulting an Islamist dictatorship?

It's more of a practical concern. Our diplomats and their details operate in places like Turkey every day and we want those governments to grant us lots of leeway when dealing with the local population. That being said, this is a spectacular display of diplomatic idiocy.

This comment is pretty fascist. The notion that it's OK to run around assaulting peaceful protesters because that gives you the scope to similarly ignore human rights elsewhere, and the phrasing "deal with" ... really don't sit well with me. A lot of what is wrong with the world rests on this kind of thinking.

Re: Video Analysis of Erdogan's security detail brawl in Washington

#70

Post by IIAOPSW »

cmurf wrote: post #44

This same scenario happened last year outside the Brookings Institution. I suspect the reason why there's such good video coverage of this year's attack, is they were ready for it, based on what happened last year. In the short term, I agree with John McCain, the Turkish ambassador to the U.S. should be expelled over this event. What precedes all of this is the U.S. supports the YPG, which Erdogan considers a terrori…

>Long term, is whether a Turkish autocracy, which is what it is now, a viable member in NATO? I think the U.S. looks the other way as long as Turkey helps fight Daesh. But Turkey is now a stain on NATO's democratic origin and purpose.

Unless Turkey loses control of the Bosphorous straits or Russia stops being what it is, Turkey will always be welcome at the table. Help with Daesh and/or pushing democratic ideas is neither the purpose of NATO, nor the origin of NATO, nor the future of NATO.

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